Quote Originally Posted by David Pinckney View Post
Sorry everybody, I have not checked this forum in a few days.

Hello Greenhorn. Do I plan on breeding them? Yes. Why a whole TEN! Because, it would be even more awesomer then one. Plus, I would need at least two to breed, and then that would be it. In order for me to have a continual population going, I will need more than just two to begin with. Otherwise, by the second generation I will be attempting to breed siblings. Then, their offspring will not only be siblings, but siblings that are already inbred! How many generations can that go on for? Even ten, as far as I know, would not provide enough genetic variation for the gene pool, but at least it would allow me to start off with five different frog families. That way, I could have four generations that are not inbred, and if I want to continue even further, I could just acquire more toads elsewhere; to add to my toad culture.

So Kröty, now you see why breeding from ten is better then breeding from two. Genomes are usually packed full of heritable diseases. Early acting ‘semi-lethal’ genes tend to get weeded out, and it’s a tautology that early acting ‘lethal’ genes are always weeded out. Children that die for genetic reasons are the exception to the rule, not the norm. Then, there are ‘late’ acting deleterious genes, both semi-lethal and even outright lethal, which can become ascendant in a gene pool, because their disastrous phenotypes do not manifest until their bearers have had enough time to have grandchildren, so the sifting mechanism of natural selection is left unable to discriminate against such genes. Not only that, but late acting deleterious genes can even be selected for, if they also have early acting effects that are adaptive. This is why there aren’t as many ‘youth’ related heritable diseases, and why every family you can find has a history of several ‘age’ related heritable diseases. It’s also one of the main reasons why (if nothing happens to kill you first) you are doomed to die of old age, no matter who you are. Among these nasty genes are ones which are, at least, recessive, so you need to have two copies of them, in order for their harmful effects to unfold. We are all chock-full of these genetic defects. The more inbred you are, the more likely you are to have a bunch of these horrible things in pairs.

This is the only explanation that I’ve ever encountered, as to why inbreeding results in an increased risk of failure to conceive, stillbirth, birth defects, and disadvantageous mutations. I don’t want any of that KRAPP happening to my pets! Successful inbreeding is apparently possible. It was done during the Victorian era, to create the breed of domestic white rats that are used in laboratories for experiments. The purpose was to control for variables, so that an experiment conducted on one rat would yield the same result when conducted on the next. They were inbred so much, that there was virtually no genetic variation between any two of them. Sibling couplings begat sibling couplings, which begat sibling couplings etc. etc., and the stock remained viable. I can only imagine that there was some process used, whereby heritable diseases were eliminated, before this un-branching family tree was made possible. It would be good to know how this is accomplished, because if you can do it to rats, I’m sure you can do it to frogs, and it would reduce the necessary scale of a frog breeding project.

And yes Kröty, I know that these toads will release several thousand eggs at once. Can I accommodate five thousand toads? Of course not, that’s okay. What I plan on doing is to just take a snippet of the egg strand, and destroy the rest. I anticipate that there might be a lot of frog lovers on this forum, who will jump out of their skin upon hearing that, but I would like for you to first consider, that that’s basically what would happen in the wild anyway. Why do you think they lay so many eggs? Only a small fraction of 1% of them, at most, are likely to survive. If they all wound up making it, then the worlds’ frog populations would increase exponentially, to no end! Second, these will only be eggs that have just recently been fertilized. It will be like an extremely early abortion, and involve zero froggy suffering. Lastly, and most importantly, it’s not right for us to just keep taking frogs from the wild, to support the trade. Especially since, exotic pet owning is becoming less exotic, and amphibian populations are declining. I know that the Cane Toad is an exception to this, but we should all start thinking about making exotic pet breeding as common, as say, dog breeding.

Kröty, it’s fantastic that you elaborated so much about the feeding details. It’s not only helpful to me, but to the other people on this forum (some of which already have frogs to care for). Of course, I know not to release animals into the wild! I know what could happen. And no, you didn’t offend me. And if you did… then the hell with me! You were just trying to help.
The wall is too much to read but I caught a glimpse of a few things. If you're planning to cut the strands and keep a few-- don't. You may disturb them too much by doing that... I'ved reared tadpoles before and had a problem when I did that... If you really really really want to do this... Just remember your reason for it and hopefully it's not one like "because it's cool" or "i want more cash". You won't make cash out of it. Infact you may loose some. Anywho. If it was up to me. I would then keep 2 sexed pairs and two additional females just in case... Then make a really large enclosure for them. Something like a wooden terrarium you would see made for tortoises but the terrarium being high enough they can't jump out of it.

This for them to be comfortable enough. In fact if you could make a pen that would be even better. Something around 5ft longx 3ft widex 2ft high is great for this! Just my opinion though because space is something animals appreciate and if they're happy and thriving they may mate.

After that make a really large pool about 2 or 3ft of that terrarium and atleast 10inches deep with plants and stuff for them to linger but space so they can swim around and lay eggs. make sure to put branches that are not from any SOFT wood trees so that the female doesn't drown in the process of egg laying.

When the eggs are laid make the pool off-limits and hopefully the eggs are in clean water that was cycled. When they hatch let them all hatch. Alot may die on you. The ones that don't let them morph. When they morph start dividing them into small groups of five. From that group observe and try to pick the desired traits such as rumbunctious ones that are not as shy as others. Any deformed toads humanely euthanize by putting them in a bag and in a freezer(as cruel as it may sound it is painless).

This is the true nature of being a breeder or so I have been told by several breeders at some herp shows. This is because you want to take out the lesser genes and keep the gene strong. Think of the goldfish. Why do you think it's so pretty?

Anywho. Keep in mind that you may not get buyers and I wouldn't start selling them until they are atleast 2-3inches big and already morphed.

This would be the scientific way of doing things with little to no human feelings towards the animal.

I do love these animals but that's pretty much the only way you could go about this imho. You don't want the bad batch to go into the wild and I think you live in cali? So you may want to do this in a special room that they will not be allowed to leave.

Word of the wise and a warning:

Should you release one of these critters into the wild be it accidentally or purposely ... Expect a huge fine and probably be arrested... Look at aussie. Nuff' said.