Being a giddy school girl!

[Tori Savage]

I have finally gotten my hands on something I have wanted for quite some time now... Took me quite a bit to finally get it, as talking my hubby into it!!! I also told him that before long, he will have to build me a room just for my frogs! I can say I am a few animals short of a zoo. I will include pics when my phone decides to let me/my comp decides to save them, which ever comes first... But I now have a .................................................. ............ Pacman! YAY!!!!!!! GO ME!!!!!!!!!!!! LOL!

Now the woman at the pet store where I bought it said this... It eats every other day. It is also eating crickets, meal worms, wax worms, and earth worms. Now this lil froggy is little! It's about the size of a half dollar im guessing. Maybe??? They also told me as long as the substrate is moist, it needs misting twice a day...

I know they need a substrate to burrow in, which as well as my other frogs substrate, they all currently have Exo Terra (I think?) Forrest Moss. Now, I've noticed that there's a few problems with this substrate... It has attracted those little pesky flies that I can't get rid of for nothing!!! It isn't the common house fly or whatever. It is little bitty flies that only water attracts them. It also has a water dish, not too deep, which it can get in and out of perfectly fine. I have a Night Glow (I think its called), 50w I think. There is also a UV bulb, which I looked at the little booklet that was by the light stand, said that it was ok for my AGTF. I had originally gotten both of those for my AGTF tank, but I had no lighting what so ever for my newest little buddy. The Pacman is also in a tank that is 20 in long by 18 in wide by 18 in tall I believe is the measurements... It's tank during the day is around 80 degrees, 70 at night. I mist it when the humidity is below 60%. It also comes out of it's burrow when I mist, day or night! Tries to follow the spray too. Tried to offer crickets, but missed them by like a mile and got a mouth full of moss. I got the moss out, pulled the back legs off of the cricket, and put them both in a critter keeper. The frog showed no interest in eating. Tried offering meal worms, same thing, no interest in eating. I tried again the next night, still no interest in either. I do treat the water I mist all my frogs with. Every other feeding, its dusted crickets with vitamins, every other feeding is meal worms.

Now that you all know the background and what not, any and all advice is welcomed!!! Any questions, I'll try my best to answer!

I have my Pacman, 2 American Green Tree Frogs, 4 Grey Tree Frogs (3 adults, 1 froglet), 3 White Lip Tree Frogs, and 1 froglet that can either be an AGTF, or White Lip. Too little to tell, but it is lime green! LOL!

[Tori Savage]

And as soon as I can get the pics onto my computer, I will gladly post pics!!!

Beings that my pacman is still pretty small, do I need to put it in something smaller until it gets bigger?

[IvoryReptiles]

Please do not feed the frog mealworms.....they are very difficult for them to digest the exoskeleton of these worms and could possibly get an impaction. Try proper sized bits of Night Crawlers/ Earthworms. Our frogs & froglets LOVE them. Also, coco fiber/coir (Bed-a-Beast or Eco Earth) are a much better substrate for these guys. If they ingest the moss, it can also cause an impaction. They are Nocturnal and do not need any UVB source, it may actually stress them out. Your temps could be at least 5 degrees warmer for both day & nights. You could try feeding the frog in a feeding container that has no substrate in it at all if you decide to keep the moss.

We have noticed that our smaller frogs & froglets get stressed out if the enclosure is too large. We breed them, so our froglets spend the first few inches of growth in 6 oz. deli cups on damp paper towels or coco fiber for the Winter. We do not use any lights and since we keep the amphibian room nice & toasty, they need no additional source of heat. You can use a UTH on the side of the enclosure for added heat. As for foods, ours eat crickets & earthworms and also the food we get from Japan....it is a powder that when mixed with water becomes a dough. It is nutritionally a complete diet and we use it as a supplemental food. They also will eat roaches (Dubia are the most common) and horn-worms on occasion.

Good luck to you & the frog.....keep us posted on it's progress!

[Tori Savage]

Here is my little frog!!! I'll try to get better pics soon. My comp and phone deiced to be complete rejects the past 3 days...

[Tori Savage]

Please be patient as I have a few more questions...


Feeding:
When feeding the frog, would it really help to feed it whatever food with tongs? I've seen lots of people posting pics of feeding their pacmans with tongs. And do I need to do this every feeding?I know it's food needs to be dusted. I had read some wheres many different times to dust... Each feeding,every other feeding, dust 1:1 (1 cricket/worm with calcium with d3, and dust the other with vitamins).I also seen once a week. I think I had even seen you post something about liquid calcium in the water...Can you add some input on that please?



Substrate:
Will it be okay in the moss for a few more days, like until the weekend (Friday at the latest)?
It seems to be doing ok for the time being. Also, I had seen at the pet store where I got it from, in the tank, there was a layer of small pebbles, then some kind of substrate, and it had a little bit of water, hardly enough to cover the pebbles. The pebbles looked like the glass pebbles that you can put in a fish tank.Could I do a small layer of that, then the coco fiber? Also, how often does the substrate need to be cleaned/changed? The moss I have in there now, it's misted up to 3 times a day, or whenever the top layer looks slightly dry, or when the humidity goes down.


Temperatures:
With the light I have on it now, it stays above 80 degrees, but no higher than 85. It pretty much fluctuates. Depending on where the sun is at, shining through my windows, or if the air conditioner cuts on, or what not. But during the day, I don't let it get any warmer than 85, no lower than 80. At night, it drops down to 70 to 75. Once again, depending on the coolness outside, the air conditioner and so on. I don't let it drop past 70, or go higher than 75. Is the temps fluctuating too much at any time? And beings its so little, what do the temps need to be around?

Humidity:
I've seen it drop as low as 60% and I'd mist periodically until it reached around 70%. Is it too most/wet/humid which ever ya want to call it?




Also, on a side note, I have to travel out of town this weekend. Which, in all honesty, I'm dreading. It isn't the traveling I hate.
It's being in a vehicle for 3 hours, with 4 kids ranging from 7 years old to a little over 1 year old. They drive me crazy!
But anyways, beings I will be gone all weekend, would it be wise to bring it with me, considering it's so little, or leave it at home, in a less crazy and stress free environment? Would it also be easier on the frog and myself to be put in a critter keeper beings it is so little?



I think that may be it unless if ya have a bit more to share! Thanks!!!

[DonLisk]

Congrats on the new Pacman and look forward to more pics in the future of him :-)

[GrifTheGreat]

Teaching your frog to eat from forcepts or tongs helps to prevent them fom ingesting substrate. The moss is bad but it should be ok for now. As soon as possible get it on some Eco Earth coco fiber or bed a beast. Plantation soil is good too.

Temps for babies should be just a bit lower. No higher than 82 no lower than 80 during the day. At night 75 to 79. Try to stay around 78 at night though. Buy a lamp with a dimmer switch so you can accurately control the amount of heat and light coming from the bulb.

Humidity must be 70 to 80%.

If you leave and someone isn't there to maintain humidity and keep the temps within the correct range it could be bad for your frog.

[Tori Savage]

Thanks Grif. I had tried feeding it last night with a pair of tweasers, it was the only thing I had. And it still was unsuccessful. But yesterday (Thursday) when I was trying to feed it, it did poop so that was a little bit of relief. I'm still worried though because it hasn't eaten anything since Monday, the day I got it. And that was 11/21. Next time I try to feed it, I'll try some worms. The only ones I can find right now is Canadian night crawlers. What about dusting with vitamins and such? I have something called Reptivite, and it does say safe for amphibians. It also says with D3. I also have some liquid spray vitamins called Fluker's Liquid Vitamin. But this one says reptiles only. I use it for my iquana. I'll just put my pacman in a critter keeper and bring alon a few crickets. I just hope this doesn't stress him out too much. Thanks guys for everything.


Oh and on a sad note, I know it isn't a pacman, but I do have other frogs. This one is a male Grey Tree Frog. Last night my husband closed the lid of my tank onto its leg and it's deffinantly broken. Can I do anything for the leg? He was taken out of the tank and put in a critter keeper by himself. And he did climb up the side of the keeper. His leg is just dangling there. Is there anything I can do for this poor fella??? It is clearly broken right at the hip bone on its back leg. Andy advice is welcomed.

[GrifTheGreat]

Thanks Grif. I had tried feeding it last night with a pair of tweasers, it was the only thing I had. And it still was unsuccessful. But yesterday (Thursday) when I was trying to feed it, it did poop so that was a little bit of relief. I'm still worried though because it hasn't eaten anything since Monday, the day I got it. And that was 11/21. Next time I try to feed it, I'll try some worms. The only ones I can find right now is Canadian night crawlers. What about dusting with vitamins and such? I have something called Reptivite, and it does say safe for amphibians. It also says with D3. I also have some liquid spray vitamins called Fluker's Liquid Vitamin. But this one says reptiles only. I use it for my iquana. I'll just put my pacman in a critter keeper and bring alon a few crickets. I just hope this doesn't stress him out too much. Thanks guys for everything.


Oh and on a sad note, I know it isn't a pacman, but I do have other frogs. This one is a male Grey Tree Frog. Last night my husband closed the lid of my tank onto its leg and it's deffinantly broken. Can I do anything for the leg? He was taken out of the tank and put in a critter keeper by himself. And he did climb up the side of the keeper. His leg is just dangling there. Is there anything I can do for this poor fella??? It is clearly broken right at the hip bone on its back leg. Andy advice is welcomed.

The Reptivite is fine but the spray vitamin is not. Try breaking the himd legs off the crickets when feeding and just drop them in front of him/her he/she may hunt on his/her own. Make sure to keep the temps up and humidity you need a temp gauge and a hygrometer. They don't alsways eat from forcepts/tongs/or tweezers. They have to learn that they get food from them. Be sure to use de-chlorinated water with your frog. You will have to cut the night crawlers up in to chunks small enough for your little baby to eat be sure to dust the crickets you feed him/her. I believe he/shemay eat if you let him/her try on his/her own.

About the Grey Tree Frog. You will have to take the frog to a vet that treats amphibians. I believe this task far excedes anything you can do. Try and make sure that the frog doesn't suffer any more due to the injury. If it eats from tweezers that will help it with food but you need to seek treatment for your frog immediately. I'm sorry this has happened and I can't be of more help.

[Tori Savage]

Well I finally got pacman to eat. YAY!!!!! lol. I had to force feed it, unfortunately... But all is well with it. I got a UTH. Where is the best place to put it? Or should I just keep it in the critter keeper it's in for the time being, and just keep the critter keeper in the bathroom (smallest room), with the heater on??? Right now, it's measuring 82 degrees, and 70% humidity. I do have worms, Canadian Night crawlers I think. That's what it ate as of Saturday night. How often do I need to use the Reptivite for it? I also have some Calci-Max. How often do I need to use that or do I even need to use it at all, considering the other vitamins I'll be putting on its food???


The Grey Tree Frog, either I'll have to find a way to put it to sleep, or try to hold out until Friday. Those are my choices. I don't have $500 to hand them at one time. So, yeah......... I feel horrible, but I am trying to think of anything else I can do.


Once again, thanks guys!

[GrifTheGreat]

Well I finally got pacman to eat. YAY!!!!! lol. I had to force feed it, unfortunately... But all is well with it. I got a UTH. Where is the best place to put it? Or should I just keep it in the critter keeper it's in for the time being, and just keep the critter keeper in the bathroom (smallest room), with the heater on??? Right now, it's measuring 82 degrees, and 70% humidity. I do have worms, Canadian Night crawlers I think. That's what it ate as of Saturday night. How often do I need to use the Reptivite for it? I also have some Calci-Max. How often do I need to use that or do I even need to use it at all, considering the other vitamins I'll be putting on its food???


The Grey Tree Frog, either I'll have to find a way to put it to sleep, or try to hold out until Friday. Those are my choices. I don't have $500 to hand them at one time. So, yeah......... I feel horrible, but I am trying to think of anything else I can do.


Once again, thanks guys!

Glad the little one ate something. Use the multivitamin once a week. Use the calcium dust every other feeding. Just don't dust with both at the same time. Skip the calcium the day you dust with the multivitamin. The best place for the UTH is on the side of the tank not the bottom. Place it on the side oposite the water dish so the frog has a temp gradient and can decide on its own whether it wants to be cool or warm. It is safe to leave him/her in the critter keeper for now though. Less room for food to escape. When feeding crickets break the hind legs off so they are easy to catch. Also cover 3 sides of the critter keeper with some kind of background so the frog feels more secure. This will help the frog feel more cofertable and may eat on its own. Do the same for the larger tank when you decide to put him/her in a more perminent home.

I'm really sorry about the tree frog. We hate to hear things like this and it can get expensive with vet bills. I hope you can save it rather than the other option, but sadly sometimes its best.

[Tori Savage]

Thanks...... I'm sorry too. But I do think it may be too late to try to get help for it. If I would've went Friday, it would've cost me over $500. But now, its $100 just for a walk in. $75-$150 per x ray. Plus whatever else they'd have to do. And they want 3/4 of the bill upfront. And the rest when the animal leaves. And we just had to pay $300 to get the family vehicle fixed and won't have any money until Friday. And then I think it will really be too late. I'm really torn between what to do.

[Tori Savage]

Ok so I'm really really confused........ I had talked to the pet store owner a few days ago, and she told me this...

She kept his day time temp at 78 deg.
she kept his night time temp at 72 deg.
She kept his humidity at 80%.
Every Monday, Wednesday and Friday, it was fed crickets. She would tear the back legs off and just drop them in the tank.
She never dusted the crickets.
All she fed it was crickets, 3 small ones a day.


Since I had increased his temps, and what not, he stopped burrowing. He still gets misted, but hasn't burrowed in almost a week. When I had to force feed him the worm almost a week ago, was when he stopped burrowing. He's refused any food I've offered since I've had him. I got him November 21. In 2 weeks timing, he actually lunged at one cricket, and successfully ate it. But I had to force feed twice just to get him to eat anything. The first time he accepted the food and ate it. About 2 nights ago, he spit the worm and the cricket out. I'm hoping that all of this is due to the colder outside temps we are getting right now. I have him in a medium sized critter keeper, with a soaking dish. He also has a Moon Glo light i think it is, above him for the day time temps. I also noticed night before last I think it was, looked like he had a little feces on his rear. So I had put him in a little warm water and it came right off. My iguana that I have has mites, and they are little silver/white looking things. She is being treated for this, but it seems like any thing I've tried, she isn't doing any better. Can hardly see the mites. When I seen the feces looked like it was stuck, I do believe I seen a mite in it. What am I doing so wrong?!

[GrifTheGreat]

The temps need to be 80 and humidity 70 to 80%. A frog that small needs to be fed daily. The food items need to be of appropriet size. Rule of thumb is no longer than the distance between the frogs eyes. Red wigglers are a different story though. They should be the right size. Do you have 3 sides of the enclosure covered with a background? How moist is the frogs substrate. It needs to be moist not mud. They won't burrow if its too wet. How many watts is the bulb you are using? Are you feeding the frog at night? The mites need to be gotten rid of. Best to change out the frogs substrate clean the enclosure. Make sure the mites aren't attacking the frog or on him/her then put new substrate in and place the frog back in the enclosure. I believe you're frog is stressed. You need to make hom her feel more secure. Use small crickets for food. 3 to 5 offered. Dust them beforehand. Don't have any bright lights on when feeding. They are nocturnal. Buy a infrared bulb they seem to work better and don't mess up the frogs day night cycle. No more than 50 watts no less then 25 watts. You can use this during the day and night. They need a 12 hour day night cycle. Don't force feed. Let the frog try on his/her own. Force feeding causes stress and should only be done when it is absolutely necissary. Keep us posted.

[GrifTheGreat]

A word of advice about pet stores and especially chain pet stores like Petsmart/Petco are natorious for not giving proper care to their reptiles and amphibians. The advice you're getting from us is solid and should be practiced. Everyone here has personal experience and there are a lot of breeders on here as well. Don't always fallow what a pet store tells you to do when it comes to the animals care. Most are wrong.

[Tori Savage]

Grif, thanks... I had gotten it a wider/larger container today. So I'm in the process of changing everything out, including the other frogs too. The store where I had gotten him from wasn't a chain store, it is a owner and worker that rebuilt after a fire gutted their orginal building. She moved location, and set up new shop. They have a pacman in the store, that is the "store pet" and she said she's had him since he was my pacs size. And this one is 9 yo and huge! The Moon Glo bulb I have is 50w I believe... It is fed at night, or attempted to feed at night. I had it in my bathroom with the heater on during the day, as well as the light on. It would all be turned off at night.

So this is my new approach......

Finish putting his new enclosure together. Use black construction paper on 3 sides. Move it to my room, less activity, and it stays warmish in there. Instead of the Forest Moss, I will be using Plantation Soil for all of my frogs. And go from there...

I had talked to another girl today and gave me a good idea... Put a thin layer of pebbles/gravel at the bottom. Then put a layer atleast 3 in deep of the plantation soil on one side, and make sure the gravel/pebbles is covered with water. Open the shade on my window, let him get a little sun light, but leave the Moon Glo light on. I do have mite spray, but it says not to be used with amphibians.

Also, here lately, the max day time temp has been 60 degrees at the most and is in the low 30's at night. Beings we are having this 2-3 week long cold snap, I think that may have something else to do with it.

Other than all of these issues, he is doing ok. When I put my hand in the keeper, he doesn't jump away or try to attack or anything. He just sits there. Even if I move my hand closer.

Once again, thanks for all the advice!!!

[GrifTheGreat]

No problem. That's what we're here for. Don't put any stones or pebbles in you frogs enclosure. They can be accidentally eaten and cause and impaction which can lead to death. Even if placed beneath the substrate there is always a chance of a few making it to the surface due to these frogs being burrowers if you want some sort of bottom to put beneath the substrate buy a zilla terrarium liner. Its made like outdoor carpet and also keeps the frogs from sitting in there own pee while burrowed. No rocks of any kind.

[Tori Savage]

Thanks!!! I am in the process of still building my other enclosure... So far, it's taken me over 4 hours! But my pac is ok with the Plantation Soil, right??? And as long as it isn't mud, but moist!

[GrifTheGreat]

Yes Plantation soil is coconut fiber based so it is just as good as Eco Earth.

[Tori Savage]

Well I had gotten the new container set up. The ink thing I could cover the 3 sides with we're small brown paper bags. It was also moved to my room, less noise and activity. I had dropped 3 crickets in it before I had left him alone for the night. I haven't wanted to disturb it today so I don't know if it's eaten them or not. Now I do have some blood worms, which I had gotten yesterday. I had originally gotten them for my albino aquatic clawed frog. But if the PAC can eat those, I can try. Now I do have a infrared light but the only issue is its 150w. I had gotten it for my iguana and it's not being used. I'll try to post some pics of his set up when all settles down here.

Another thing I must add is this...... I am ADHD so if I keep asking the same thing or word it differently, please bear with me. That's another reason why I keep asking if something is right after you've probably already posted it.

Once again, thanks for all of the advice!!!