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Thread: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

  1. #1
    TANK
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    Default Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Is redwood mulch safe for my bufo alvarius?
    Im planning on mixing this stuff with play sand unless of course it is unsafe.
    Whats your opinions?

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  3. #2
    Badger
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Both play sand and mulch are unsafe, they can cause impaction and kill your frog, the best substrate to use (in my opinion) is coco-fiber (not to be confused with coco-husk). The biggest name brand is Eco-Earth by zoo med.

  4. #3
    TANK
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    well i know for a fact play sand is safe since ive been using it in a mixture with cocofiber with my african bullfrogs and my toad
    but i just wanted to know if it is toxic to my toad
    im not too worried about impaction since i only tong feed

  5. #4
    Badger
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    If you ONLY tong feed then either would be safe, I believe redwood is non toxic. and if you don't tong feed, playsand and mulch both are very dangerous.

  6. #5
    Kurt
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Redwood is a conifer and most conifers are toxic to frogs. So unless someone more in the know than myself chimes in, I would avoid redwood.

  7. #6
    Badger
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    I had no clue it was a conifer. Whoops. Yeah, avoid it.

  8. #7
    Kurt
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Never been to California, eh?

  9. #8
    Badger
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Haha, nope. Only here in new england sadly. I knew redwoods were the HUGE trees, but I thought they were hardwood.

  10. #9
    Contributor SludgeMunkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Both play sand and mulch are unsafe, they can cause impaction and kill your frog, the best substrate to use (in my opinion) is coco-fiber (not to be confused with coco-husk). The biggest name brand is Eco-Earth by zoo med.
    Sand- True
    Mulch- Depends on the mulch

    Coco-fiber and coco- husk are the same product. They are just different forms of coir.

    As for redwood, never use this stuff. It is OK for orchids, but bad for living animals.

    Over on Caudata Culture Articles, I have an article that discusses what wood products are safe to use for amphibians.
    Watching FrogTV because it is better when someone else has to maintain the enclosure!

  11. #10
    Badger
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    I was under the impression that coco-husk was un-ground, having big chips in it that run the risk of impaction, and coco-fiber was complete ground and resembled dirt more than mulch. Granted they are both coir, I believe they are different products. Exo-Terra sells the husk, and Zoo Med sells the fiber, of which Zoo Med is the best choice.

  12. #11
    TANK
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    good to know
    thanks for the input everyone

  13. #12
    Poly
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    Both play sand and mulch are unsafe, they can cause impaction and kill your frog, the best substrate to use (in my opinion) is coco-fiber (not to be confused with coco-husk). The biggest name brand is Eco-Earth by zoo med.
    I disagree! If an amphibian comes from a naturally sandy enviroment, there is no reason that sand cannot be used in it's vivarium. My american toads have a mixture of sand and soil in their viv (used to be straight sand, had to mix in soil for the plants to grow), they hunt in the viv for their food (I do not tong feed them) and they are fine.

    Sand does not cause impaction, I know this for a fact because my american toad shed on 100% sand while being partially burrowed, and it's shed was FULL of sand. It ate the entire shed, sand and all and was fine, now is still fine 2 months later. Sand is small, if ingested, it is easily passed.

    Where are you getting your information about how "unsafe sand" is?

  14. #13
    Poly
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Oh, and chances are, a Bufo alvarius (Colorado River Toad) is WC and used to a sandy enviroment.

  15. #14
    Contributor SludgeMunkey's Avatar
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    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    True, but a wet sandy environment is NOT an enclosure in your home. I am against the use of sand for terrestrial amphibians less due to impaction and more due to the fact wet sand goes foul very quickly. This results in death of the specimen due to fungal or bacterial issues.


    Personally, I suggest a mix of organic topsoil and coir for toads. North American toads in particular like to burrow and need a substrate that can withstand burrowing. Sand alone does not do this as in order to keep it wet enough to compact, it is too wet for the toads.


    Trust me when I say that a coir/soil mix is best.
    Watching FrogTV because it is better when someone else has to maintain the enclosure!

  16. #15
    Poly
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Quote Originally Posted by SludgeMunkey View Post
    True, but a wet sandy environment is NOT an enclosure in your home. I am against the use of sand for terrestrial amphibians less due to impaction and more due to the fact wet sand goes foul very quickly. This results in death of the specimen due to fungal or bacterial issues.


    Personally, I suggest a mix of organic topsoil and coir for toads. North American toads in particular like to burrow and need a substrate that can withstand burrowing. Sand alone does not do this as in order to keep it wet enough to compact, it is too wet for the toads.


    Trust me when I say that a coir/soil mix is best.
    Who said anything about it being wet? I keep my substrate "damp" and they have NO problem burrowing in it. When I used 100% sand for their substrate, they'd burrow all the time! And I NEVER have problems with "fungal or bacterial issues".

    Here's just one of many photos I took:

  17. #16
    Poly
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    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Here's the toad that ate it's sand covered shed:

  18. #17
    Badger
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    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    I know that sand can cause impaction in herptiles, toads may be an exception, but there are some nasty horror stories of beardie impactions due to sand, but beardies are at a higher risk for it due to their poorly designed digestive tract. I don't see how it would be impossible to cause impaction in amphibians though, just because they are so small. I have never personally encountered any instances of amphiban impaction, but I would rather be safe than sorry. There is a reason lifespans are shorter in the wild. Just because it comes from that environment does not mean the conditions are optimum for survival. Bearded dragons come from a sandy (Though, there are a bunch of other types of substrate that they encounter, ex: rocks/soil) environment, and sand is terrible to use for them. As for the fungal/bacterium: I'm not sure if you would be able to see either, but I am not very educated in either of them

    I like a healthy debate once in a while =D

  19. #18
    Poly
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger View Post
    I know that sand can cause impaction in herptiles, toads may be an exception, but there are some nasty horror stories of beardie impactions due to sand, but beardies are at a higher risk for it due to their poorly designed digestive tract. I don't see how it would be impossible to cause impaction in amphibians though, just because they are so small. I have never personally encountered any instances of amphiban impaction, but I would rather be safe than sorry. As for the fungal/bacterium: I'm not sure if you would be able to see either, but I am not very educated in either of them.
    As I said, I am talking about WC American Toads that come from a sandy enviroment, I do not know if sand would be a problem with other amphibians. But as far as I am concerned, sand is a safe substrate for toads.

  20. #19
    Badger
    Guest

    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Quote Originally Posted by Badger
    There is a reason lifespans are shorter in the wild. Just because it comes from that environment does not mean the conditions are optimum for survival. Bearded dragons come from a sandy (Though, there are a bunch of other types of substrate that they encounter, ex: rocks/soil) environment, and sand is terrible to use for them.
    Sorry, I edited the post.

  21. #20
    Squirp
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    Default Re: Gorilla Fur (redwood mulch)

    Poly, I'd just like to chime in here, since when I first started you and I had this discussion about sand.
    Since then I'm not too apposed to it, and I've actually used some sand in my setup for two reasons,
    one, it kept a culture of fly's from continuing to take over.
    and two, I felt it's best to give the toad as many options as possible to hide under and traverse across.

    Assuming people research the net in a similar pathway that I do. When I first researched toads as pets, I came across the pacman toad, and it just so happened there are a number of video's online showing you how to set up a tank. I took the advice of a gentlemen who claimed to be a herpetologist, who proceeded to break down that the pacman frog is more toad like, and adopted his own toad psychology into the setup of a tank well suited to their needs. This is where I got the impression to avoid sand, Anyway, Poly, in your case I don't believe this is a problem, because you are collecting mineral samples from the toads indigenous area. Your sand looks a lot "chunkier" than the refined proceed materials you'd find in playground sand. Never the less, since my research I felt best to start my knot of toads from species I've rescued in my travels and save the exotic species for a time when I feel I've become well sorted to nurture toads.

    that being said, I'm glad to see this discussion is being tackled in other directions. I personally consider myself new to the study of toads, but their health is an up most concern of mine. I have also added some rather large bark chunks I scraped off from a red pine, and I included some pine needle branches to stand upright around their pool to provide some privacy, and I was considering the possibility that rough surfaces like the bark, or even some of the sap might create a problem for the toads

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