I misread the first post, hence the response edit. Thanks for your advice.
RO is brewing now, a few more gallons left.
On a related subject ACF just stole a nightcrawler from the baby stingray and swallowed it in a second, so he's eating.
Re: Possible ACF bloat
I misread the first post, hence the response edit. Thanks for your advice.
RO is brewing now, a few more gallons left.
On a related subject ACF just stole a nightcrawler from the baby stingray and swallowed it in a second, so he's eating.
![[United States]](images/flags/United States.gif "United States")
Re: Possible ACF bloat
It is good that he is eating - but to be honest the stingrays are not the only risk.
Blood parrot cichlids, elephant nose, ghost knives, kissing gouramis, and rainbow sharks are ALL semi-aggressive fish. When put with a creature who is not exactly semi-aggressive but acts more out of filling its gut then defending territory, you are asking for trouble.
Just because the frog has been lucky so far, does not mean it will continue to do so. Fish increase in aggression as they age - you could just be waiting for the inevitable unfortunately.
The bloat could be indicating a stressed, unhappy, unhealthy frog.
72 Gallon Bow - ACF and GF tank.
26 Gallon Bow - ACF tank.
20 Gallon Long - ACF tank.
"If there were an invisible cat in that chair, the chair would look empty. But the chair does look empty; therefore there is an invisible cat in it." C.S. Lewis, Four Loves, 1958
Re: Possible ACF bloat
What temp do you keep your tank at? ACF like 20-24c
Re: Possible ACF bloat
the temp is 78F (25.5C). Can't keep it any lower since the house is at 77 during the summer (not it's not an issue now, but I don't want the temperature jumping) and between the pumps ( I have 3 and lights (they are LED, but still produce heat) I have to run 2 surface fans just to keep the water at that temperature. The chiller is an alternative, but I'm can't justify it for freshwater.Originally Posted by xxianxx
Re: Possible ACF bloat
Just curious as to why you asked if you wanted to shirk off our suggestions? We ask and advise because we have a genuine care for the frog - we don't have to have degrees to know about proper care of an animal.
It seems you want a tank for people to point and exclaim over the mix...not really one dedicated to a certain sect of aquatic life.
72 Gallon Bow - ACF and GF tank.
26 Gallon Bow - ACF tank.
20 Gallon Long - ACF tank.
"If there were an invisible cat in that chair, the chair would look empty. But the chair does look empty; therefore there is an invisible cat in it." C.S. Lewis, Four Loves, 1958
Re: Possible ACF bloat
I have an ACF who has been bloated three times due to intestinal blockages from eating too much, she is an exceptionally greedy frog and she will eat herself to death if given half a chance , i now have to hand feed her and her tank mates to control the amount she eats. I reread your original post and saw that your frog may have eaten squid, do you often feed it squid? if so how digestible is it? and how big was the piece? both food type and size of item may cause blockages, the bloating may be a blockage in the digestive tract rather than an osmotic fluid build up . I have successfully treated my frog by placing her in a bucket of cold salty water and leaving her in their for an hour, you might need to repeat this process a couple of times if it is a blockage. Please dont take offense at the advice offered in this forum, people are only offering suggestions to help you not insult your style of animal care.
Re: Possible ACF bloat
The squid was not for him. He eats anything, stingrays are a bit more selective, being wild caught and just being stingrays. I have been largely unsuccessful of getting them to eat any type of prepared food - they just ignore it, and since at least part of the diet is full thiaminase, I'm forced to inject things with vitamins B1 and E. Overall - a huge pain in the neck. As far as the piece of the squid it wasn't huge, but big enough only for my female to eat, she had a few a went for a walk, this is when he grabbed it. It's quite possible it's stuck now as it's very hard food to digest. The good news is that vitamin E is laxative in humans, so it might help him to expel it. Controlling the feed is hard if not impossible since I have to drop seafood in the tank - stingrays are poisonous.
I take no offense at advise, but I do want to know the reasons why things happen and understand them before treatment. Lots of people treat animals the same way doctors treat humans. Oh you're sniffling? - Let me give you an antibiotic. No analysis, no tests - no science. This is exactly the reason why new antibiotics need to be developed all the time: they are overused and bacteria develop resistance. Same thing with animals, but to a larger degree since most people don't even talk to a vet before dumping a bunch of meds into the tank. My experience is largely with fish, not frogs, so I'm reading (went through the amphibian pharmacy reference last night) and is definitely interested in other people's experiences with similar issues.
Re: Possible ACF bloat
My first question was to identify whether it was bloat in the first place and it doesn't seem like it is now since it's subsiding. Bloat in frogs indicates a failure in lymphatic hearts and fluid accumulation - same as in people. In people it's always fatal. Instead we jumped into treatments and discussions about happiness even before identifying the problem (I assume that's because ammonia wasn't the issue). I also disagree that you don't need a degree to treat anything alive - you kind of do. Experience is also important, which is why I was curious whether:
1. People have seen that.
2. Possible treatments and outcomes.
Oh, and I don't really care if people look at my tank - I look at it.
Re: Possible ACF bloat
You are right about the causes of bloat. However, many people who keep ACFs don't realize that there are two kinds of bloating. There is a "hard bloat" caused by a bacterial infection, which, by the way, is almost always fatal. Treatment must be started quickly after symptoms are detected. The second type is a "soft bloat", caused by accumulation of fluids underneath the skin - this gives the frog an appearance like the "Michelin-man". This is not always fatal but must be treated to keep the frog healthy. Jenna is quite correct in her diagnosis and treatment. Salt baths do work for "soft bloat".
Jenna, myself, and others on this forum really appreciate these frogs. I guess you can say we are passionate about them. They are tough frogs and often don't get the respect as other species do. My experience with them goes back nearly 30 years. Jenna keeps several species of Xenopus and had tremendous success with them.
I am glad that the swelling is going down. It is a good sign that the frog is getting back to normal
Terry Gampper
Nebraska Herpetological Society
“If we can discover the meaning in the trilling of a frog, perhaps we may understand why it is for us not merely noise but a song of poetry and emotion.”
--- Adrian Forsyth
Re: Possible ACF bloat
Well, since we are on the subject of extreme stress and cohabitation with aggressive species - all the things that should have killed me long ago, I discussed this with a vet. We took a blood sample and awaiting analysis. We also did discuss the water changes over the past week and it turns out that the bloat might have been an osmotic reaction to lower GH caused by a several 25% water changes. Let's see what blood test shows, but the good news is that he's gotten less swollen tonight, so there might be a light in the end of the tunnel. I have decided to leave him alone for now and monitor.
Please do not get offended, but I always prefer scientific explanations as opposed to emotions and perceived aggression. If I find out more or if the condition changes I will let you know.
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