What do you think??

[Ebony]

Hi, I'm just wanting to know other people's views on catching Frogs in the wild and selling them.

I myself feel that its totally wrong and it really upsets me as Frog here are scares as it is. I feel that taking something from its natural environment just to make money is so wrong. When I was a Kid I found a frog and I took home. The next day I took it back to its home as all I could think about was I ripped it away from its family (I was a bit young to realise that frogs don't have the family thing going on) so even as a kid I knew it was wrong in my mind. Am I wrong about this?

[Kurt]

Well, its a double-edged sword. On the one hand there is your point of view. On the other is that these wild-caught specimens provide us with the species we wouldn't otherwise have.
I have no problem with wild collection as long as it is done with moderation. Eventually captive breeding of amphibians will catch up with reptiles. When that happens you will see a lot less wild caught stock for sale. But until then....

[Ebony]

Yea, Your right Kurt. I'm all for breeding. I just find it cruel for a person to take a frog from its natural environment and think he/she has the right to sell it for his/hers own gain. It is as you say Kurt "A double edged sword"

[Kurt]

The problem is when they take EVERY frog in a given area.

[Ebony]

Yes, and there's not many given areas now days. the frogs have a real fight with their environment reconstructions that go on, which involves sprays as well as heavy machinery, so this is just another nail in their coffin

[Tom Highum]

The main thing is their status and the population in an area. I have a wild caught turtle, but they are fine status wise and the lake/ pond was about 100 meters around and I could (winter) catch about 10 a day, in my secret spot . Does that sound wrong? But to take a frog from an area witch they are scarce in is cruel.

I think that catching them to sell as pets is not as good as to sell them as a breeder in hopes that the pet trade in the future wont heavily rely on nature.

[Kevin1]

I pretty much feel they way Kurt does about it.
Though in the case of invasive species I feel it isn't wrong at all, as long as they're taken from where they're invasive. Every last one. Taking wild invasive animals from outside their natural range would help restore Nature's balance.(To some extent)

[Ebony]

Ive had all my Frogs as tadpoles and took them 4 years to breed. I wonder if a wild caught frog would even breed given the stress and conditions it would be changed into. But for a breeding program catching wild frogs is OK by me. Thanks Tom for your input.

[Kurt]

I wonder if a wild caught frog would even breed given the stress and conditions it would be changed into.

Yes, it would. How do you think we get captive bred frogs in the first place?

[Ebony]

Oh, I guess I just assumed people started with tadpoles.

[Kurt]

Not usually. If they did, the tadpoles would still technically be wild caught.

[Tom Highum]

Ok what do people think of Captive Hatched and Captive Raised?
I personally don't think it is as bad because of the hight mortality rate in young animals

[Kurt]

Mortality rates are much higher in the wild amongst juveniles, than they are captivity.

[Ebony]

I no its got to start somewhere, I just think that with the high risk our frogs are in at this day and age I would think people would be more careful. We are not able to take our NZ native Frogs from the wild or keep them in captivity as its illegal with out a permit. I think it should also apply to our introduced species as their numbers in the wild are reducing as well. How are the frog species faring where you are Kurt? Do you have declines in your Frog species in the wild?

[John]

I'm very much against wild collecting for commercial gain. We don't allow this at all on Caudata.org and I only tolerate vendors advertising here because I'm running frogforum.net with the eventual age of making money from it (it still hasn't paid for itself by a long way so that's a far off goal).

[Kurt]

Frogs in Massachusetts, for the most part, are fine. However, the northern leopard frog, Lithobates pipiens is in decline over most of it's range, which does include the Bay State. Also, the Commonwealth of Massachusetts considers the eastern spadefoot toad, Scaphiopus holbrookii to be a threatened species. It is the only native species we are not aloud to keep.
State law also states that we are only aloud to keep up to two specimens of per native species that are legal to keep. So I can keep two gray treefrogs, but no more.
Commercial collecting of an amphibians is strictly illegal here, and you can't buy or sell any native species. So if I wanted to get rid of my eastern milk snake, I would have to give it away and not sell it. Of course this doesn't stop some pet stores from selling native animals, as I have seen eastern painted turtles, gray treefrogs, spotted salamanders, and black rat snakes for sale. Black rats are considered endangered by MA and you can get in serious trouble for trying to sell them.
Elsewhere in the US things are worse, especially in California, where chytrid is wiping out the mountain yellow-legged frog, Rana muscosa.

[Tom Highum]

Yes it is common in the US not to be able to sell native wild life and to have restrictions on the amounts. In Colorado it is you can collect 4 of one species (select species) per year and can have a maximum of 12 total wild caught animals. Though this doesn't include snappers of tiger salamanders because they require fishing licenses to capture.
Some states have problems with invasive bullfrogs eating native frogs.

[Kurt]

Arizona and California come to mind.