Water debate

[DVirginiana]

Those pictures we're just comparing body mass, and structure. Sorry if they came off biased :]

My pacman spent days in the water when given the option, so he obviously slept in it. And he was diving to swim to the other side of the tank he was never really reaching or slipping. He also had the gravel to grab onto so he definitely wasn't slipping.

Also, all you guys seem to have some kind of scientific evidence that they are always found on the ground? I can't seem to find any kind of field study on them at all. So are most of you basing your idea for this on just hear say, and no actual study on their environment. I want to read something that was from a study, not a caresheet. And the study should be of a wide range of locations, not just one locale. I just find the same caresheets and other small little articles which could be way off/outdated for all we know. All say they are a terrestrial frog, often found in SHALLOW POOLS OF WATER. Or terrestrial frog found close to water etc. I can't find a straight answer. This also goes for Pyxie's. Almost everything I read says nothing about them being aquatic either just terrestrial, but they are totally fine with it.

Now, if they do everything like toads then why aren't they called toads? Is it because there maybe an aquatic background to them?

So you guys are telling me no one on here keeps them in a shallow water type setup? I could have sworn I remember someone having a room full of water setups for pacs...I wish I can remember argh!

Do a bit of research; check out the source links at the bottom of these species' wikipedia pages, get on google scholar, ect. My pac occasionally sleeps in his water as well, but the majority of his time is spent in dirt. Just wondering, what was the humidity of his tank? They will also self-regulate by soaking if they have shedding difficulties or constipation, which is possibly the reason yours was spending so much time in the water. Also, keep in mind that it could just seem like it was in the water a lot based on how often/when you were observing it.

The pacman frog is primarily terrestrial. Yes, they need water and high humidity. Yes, they are often found in pools of shallow water. That doesn't mean that it is a suitable long-term habitat for them. On any given day my dog can be found in a shallow pool of water, but she's definitely terrestrial lol. It's not difficult for a species living in the tropics to find a shallow puddle and sit in it for a while. Honestly, the reason that they are 'found' in these puddles in field studies, is probably because that is where they are the most visible. How many completely burrowed pacs is a researcher likely to find out walking through the rainforest? Not many. They are most easily found and studied during mating season, when they are usually chilling out in shallow puddles, waiting to make baby pacs and maybe even eat their mates afterwards. You know, fun wet-season frog activities.

Not to sound snippy, but the reason you aren't finding any sources describing these animals as 'aquatic' is because they simply aren't. They need water, but they don't live in it. I'm glad your pixie recovered, but you're basing your observations of "they are totally fine with it" (with "it" being an aquatic setup) off of one animal for a fairly short period of time. If you keep your pyxie in a no-land setup for the rest of its life, I think you will begin to see some serious repercussions. It might take awhile; I can't think of any common pet amphibian much hardier than the pyxie, but having no land will eventually begin to stress it.

Also, I believe I remember the setups you were talking about. They were not totally aquatic; the frogs had a pad to climb out of the water on and nothing to burrow in. If I recall correctly, that setup idea was criticized on here. There is a reason people recommend the setups they do. It's because that's what the animals prefer in the wild. If pacs and pyxies preferred to spend all or even most of their time in the water then they would live in year-round ponds and rivers, not seasonal pools and puddles. Not trying to sound harsh, but you aren't really backing up your POV with more than a very limited personal experience, and if you're recommending a new husbandry method for a type of animal, there should be some other background research to accompany it.

[GrifTheGreat]

Well there you have it. Everyone who has personal experience and is very experienced with these frogs has pretty much answered you questions. Also there is no such thing as a friendly arguement. They always turn sour quick and usually lead to warnings and bans which no one wants. You asked for advice and opinions and you got them. If you want hard eveidence then that research should be done by you. That's part of being experienced. Sometimes you have to find the answers yourself and not have others do it for you. Its part of the learning process. Especially when it comes to these frogs and others. We are all still learning and probably will never stop.

[DVirginiana]

Well put.

[dsmalex97]

Well there you have it. Everyone who has personal experience and is very experienced with these frogs has pretty much answered you questions. Also there is no such thing as a friendly arguement. They always turn sour quick and usually lead to warnings and bans which no one wants. You asked for advice and opinions and you got them. If you want hard eveidence then that research should be done by you. That's part of being experienced. Sometimes you have to find the answers yourself and not have others do it for you. Its part of the learning process. Especially when it comes to these frogs and others. We are all still learning and probably will never stop.

So what are you saying then? I can't ask why without people people getting offended, and thinking I'm trying to "one up" them? Is this a dictatorship of frog care haha, gimme a break? I was just trying to compile facts and see if maybe there was some information on the matter via a forum member. I know there's always someone with that hidden link that connects it all together too, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. If this is bothering anyone then please just don't bother answering then because I'm in no way trying to offend anyone, or piss anyone off. I don't want to start any kind of fights. Personally, I like debate. I like sifting through information, and going back and forth with others to form my opinions. I also like forming new opinions, and new ideas. To me, without debate there wouldn't be half the discoveries made on this planet. By me asking why, or why not in this case I am "learning". If you are offended by debate, and can't not take it personal, then don't engage in one. I'm grateful for all your opinions and will continue to research the idea. Again, I am sorry if I annoyed any of you with my questions.

[dsmalex97]

I believe I mentioned that I want to incorporate some kind of land mass. I don't even intend on leaving my pyxie in just water. In a month or so I will upgrade her cage size, and add land. It will be mostly water with a place to get out and dry off. I'm just thinking of setting it up as predominately water. This is what I wanted to do for the pac as well when he/she is older.

[Greenhorn]

Honestly, the reason that they are 'found' in these puddles in field studies, is probably because that is where they are the most visible. How many completely burrowed pacs is a researcher likely to find out walking through the rainforest? Not many.

DVirginia, are you a genius or was this purely good unadulterated common sense? I can't tell.

[GrifTheGreat]

So what are you saying then? I can't ask why without people people getting offended, and thinking I'm trying to "one up" them? Is this a dictatorship of frog care haha, gimme a break? I was just trying to compile facts and see if maybe there was some information on the matter via a forum member. I know there's always someone with that hidden link that connects it all together too, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. If this is bothering anyone then please just don't bother answering then because I'm in no way trying to offend anyone, or piss anyone off. I don't want to start any kind of fights. Personally, I like debate. I like sifting through information, and going back and forth with others to form my opinions. I also like forming new opinions, and new ideas. To me, without debate there wouldn't be half the discoveries made on this planet. By me asking why, or why not in this case I am "learning". If you are offended by debate, and can't not take it personal, then don't engage in one. I'm grateful for all your opinions and will continue to research the idea. Again, I am sorry if I annoyed any of you with my questions.

I'm not saying that you can't ask questions and no its not a dictatorship. Its just every time someone wants to ask questions and and gets an answer and if they don't like the answer then they ask why or question the answer it always ends up with someone going too far. Some people get annoyed and all the experienced owners will be annoyed if asked for advice and when given it they don't take it or want to argue about it. They just end very unfriendly so there are NO friendly arguements.

[GrifTheGreat]

DVirginia, are you a genius or was this purely good unadulterated common sense? I can't tell.

I believe its a little bit of both Lol!

[GrifTheGreat]

I believe I mentioned that I want to incorporate some kind of land mass. I don't even intend on leaving my pyxie in just water. In a month or so I will upgrade her cage size, and add land. It will be mostly water with a place to get out and dry off. I'm just thinking of setting it up as predominately water. This is what I wanted to do for the pac as well when he/she is older.

Its not an ideal setup but as long as the water is cleaned constantly and the frog has a choice and no risk of injury or drowning it may be fine. Sounds really messy and a hassel to me though.

[dsmalex97]

I'm not saying that you can't ask questions and no its not a dictatorship. Its just every time someone wants to ask questions and and gets an answer and if they don't like the answer then they ask why or question the answer it always ends up with someone going too far. Some people get annoyed and all the experienced owners will be annoyed if asked for advice and when given it they don't take it or want to argue about it. They just end very unfriendly so there are NO friendly arguements.

You ever hear the phrase for arguments sake? Well there ya go, there is. I'm just trying to make an argument to either prove it right or wrong. It's looking like in this case I'm a little off with my idea's. Perfectly fine, but if you think I'm just going to roll over and say "well Griff(or whoever) said it's ok(or not ok) so I'm good." No, I'm going to ask where did you arrive at your answer. If that annoys you then perhaps you should ask yourself the question at hand lol. I'm not saying it does annoy you Griff, but just sayin' man that's all. I even remember stating that all the methods that almost all of you use we're 100% legit. I'm just maybe coming up with a new one. Maybe not lol. But I wouldn't do so without asking for all your opinions, and why.

[dsmalex97]

Its not an ideal setup but as long as the water is cleaned constantly and the frog has a choice and no risk of injury or drowning it may be fine. Sounds really messy and a hassel to me though.

It probably is lol

But maybe there is a way to make it a little less messy, and still as effective. Maybe...hmm

But wouldn't it be ideal, because they have the option of a nice pool or somewhere to dry off and dig in?

[GrifTheGreat]

You ever hear the phrase for arguments sake? Well there ya go, there is. I'm just trying to make an argument to either prove it right or wrong. It's looking like in this case I'm a little off with my idea's. Perfectly fine, but if you think I'm just going to roll over and say "well Griff(or whoever) said it's ok(or not ok) so I'm good." No, I'm going to ask where did you arrive at your answer. If that annoys you then perhaps you should ask yourself the question at hand lol. I'm not saying it does annoy you Griff, but just sayin' man that's all. I even remember stating that all the methods that almost all of you use we're 100% legit. I'm just maybe coming up with a new one. Maybe not lol. But I wouldn't do so without asking for all your opinions, and why.

No worries I'm not annoyed its just eventually someone gets mad and goes too far. I at one time thought of having a small part of the tank be water and the rest land when I first started. Kind of like 75% land and 25% water but that idea for me dwindled away since that is a ver small body of water and a waste to try and filter or change without removing the substrate. I found a farely large water dish was so much easier to deal with. All I can say is you could test your idea. The only problem is experimenting with living things especially beloved pets and the experiment goes wrong you wind up with a lost pet and a broken heart and no one wants that. It saddens me every time I read a thread where a frog is sick and when we all respond its too late. I don't like to experiment with my family members. Especially when they are doing well already.

[Greenhorn]

It probably is lol

But maybe there is a way to make it a little less messy, and still as effective. Maybe...hmm

But wouldn't it be ideal, because they have the option of a nice pool or somewhere to dry off and dig in?

I think the objections were with the frog not being able to burrow... Earlier it sounded like the frog wouldnt have a place to "dig in"

[pac]

Nice edvice but i would change to eco earth or paper towels like Ivoryreptiles

[dsmalex97]

Nice edvice but i would change to eco earth or paper towels like Ivoryreptiles

My Pac is currently on paper towels. This is just an idea for the future when he gets older.

[DVirginiana]

There are plastic water dishes manufactured for larger animals like monitors and stuff that you could stick in the frog's eco-earth. It'd give him plenty of water-space but you wouldn't have to worry about doing a 50-50 setup. They're easy to just pick up and clean out.

[dsmalex97]

There are plastic water dishes manufactured for larger animals like monitors and stuff that you could stick in the frog's eco-earth. It'd give him plenty of water-space but you wouldn't have to worry about doing a 50-50 setup. They're easy to just pick up and clean out.

I thought about using a car little pan or something like that.

[GrifTheGreat]

There are plastic water dishes manufactured for larger animals like monitors and stuff that you could stick in the frog's eco-earth. It'd give him plenty of water-space but you wouldn't have to worry about doing a 50-50 setup. They're easy to just pick up and clean out.

I have large granite water dish for Grif made by Exo-Terra. Its really nice, but its slick when the water is in it. I'm going to take some sand paper to it and rough up the inside so she can grip the bottom better.

[GrifTheGreat]

I thought about using a car little pan or something like that.

Did you mean Cat litter pan? Lol!

[dsmalex97]

Did you mean Cat litter pan? Lol!

Yes I did, whoooops lol