Water debate

[dsmalex97]

As a lot of you know, I just switched my Pyxie to an all water setup. It's been working wonderfully so far, and she has had a complete turn around in terms of appetite since switching from coco fiber. Not knocking the stuff, but for some reason it's was giving my girl some problems. I changed her to water and slowly but surely her appetite went through the roof! She would never eat night crawlers, but for some reason when I offer them in the water she gobbles them up. Not sure why this is, but it worked and I love how perky she is now. I plan on getting a bigger tank, with a small land zone, but almost all water. I feel this setup would work well with pacs too. I feel like they almost feel more secure in the water because they can move faster, and they can go under. There we're multiple times I caught my pac fully submerged when I approached his tank when I had the water/land setup to evade me lol. There are also a lot of benefits to water. Humidity for one is no longer and issue. Impaction is no longer an issue. Easier to monitor bowel movements. I think it may also make the frog more active, and encourages them to get off their fat *** for once haha. My pac was darting across the water sometimes it was hilarious. My pyxie actually chases her food now too which is fun to watch. She would never move when she was in the coco fiber for some reason and gave up. I don't know a whole lot about these frogs, but from what I've gathered they like to take shelter in small pools as well as dig into the forest floor. So who's to say that they wouldn't rather sit in a pool, then on the ground? I think offering land and water is key, but to me more water is the way to go. Obviously, this may not be the best for everyone's frog, but I do feel it's an underrated substrate type for these guys. It seems to be getting a little more common on here now, and I would like to hear everyone's opinion on this. This is not trying to say one setup is superior to the other, but to just shed some light on the matter. Let the debate begin!

[Sublime]

Well like I mentioned before it's great you recovered your pixie converting to an all aquatic setup for her. To be considered though, pixies are mostly found in pools of water (semi-aquatic), whereas pacmans are typically found in the forest floor scattered among leaf litter or what have you. Generally from what I've seen - even though I don't own a pacman (yet) - is their ability to swim is incomparable to a bullfrog. Bullfrogs built with long webbed feet and body structure to stay a float with their nostrils and eyes staying above water. Also they can stay submerged for a considerable amount of time as I'm sure you are already aware of when you switched to an aquatic setup.

When you take a pacmans' physique compared to a bullfrog, then you see why bullfrogs do so well in aquatic setups. Look at the American cousin subset species, their pretty much only aquatic for the moist part on logs among pond banks, etc. I myself, have considered an aquatic setup for my pixie because I really want him to swim more since he's always found in his water bowl. If I had to choose though what would be best for your pacman, it would definitely be terrestrial land how they typically would be found in the wild (South America).

[Heatheranne]

I would at least give your baby some land as an option. They are burrow sleepers. Even if it just a small section. Perhaps give him an option. My pac loves to soak daily, so I understand their enjoyment of water. He even soaked for an hour last night . I would provide both . It is always best to provide their natural habitat for the best health. There is a reason why they instinctively live as they do .

What does your pac look like?

[IvoryReptiles]

The C. cranwelli and most of the frogs called Pacman Frogs are NOT aquatic frogs. If placed in a completely aquatic environment without access to dry land, they can & will drown. There is a reason those of us who breed them tell people to give them a soaking bowl/dish that holds enough water to reach the chin and no higher.
If you want to give him a shallow "pond" in his enclosure, that's great. But if they get in a spot where they cannot get to the surface or land easily, you risk drowning them. They enjoy a soak, but deeper waters are utilized only for mating and even then, shallow pools or the shallow edges of a pool is where they mate.
Good Luck and please do post some photos of your set-up.

[dsmalex97]

How could they drown if the water doesn't go above their nose? I mean Pacs and Pyxie's are different, but really have a very similar body structure. I understand they aren't like American Bullfrogs in terms of swimming talent, but they do seem to enjoy sitting in water. I had my Pac in a land/water setup, but changed it. Reason being because the filter I was using for the water section wasn't doing a good enough job for me. He was spending probably 75% of his time in the water, and I didn't want him getting sick from dirty water. I now have my pac on wet paper towels, and he's comfortable for now. I don't think a water setup for a baby is a great idea, but for sub-adults/adults I think it could be feasible. My pyxie has had no access to land for the last couple of weeks and is fine. I plan on adding some land for her, but not until I get a bigger tank. When my pac had access to a lot of water he used it all, and I found him swimming underwater across the tank on numerous occasions. I think we underestimate how much they actually like water. They often use the water dish to poo or pee in, and that renders it useless. I'm sure they don't like sitting in a pool of their own pee/poo, and don't stick around for too long once they do. I think the big question here is if given lots clean fresh water to soak in daily, what would the frog do? Sit in the water, or sit in hole it dug for itself? My pac seemed to come out to sit in his moss for periods, but almost always returned to the water. I would say he would stay in the water for a couple of days, and then emerge for one on average. So that alone kind of proved it to me that they really love a good thorough soak/swim. Isn't there someone on here that keeps them in water? I thought I remember seeing a picture of a room with a bunch of pacs in water setups. I could be wrong. But I found this picture of what looks to be a wild pac sitting in a....


POND!! lol

[dsmalex97]

Comparison shots





How could you say that their body types aren't almost identical lol? They're fat belly's with a mouth, and arms/legs! Neither are meant to be as agile as the American Bullfrog(or other aquatics), but that doesn't mean they don't prefer water. Maybe not prefer, but definitely appreciate a good swim/soak. I mean they we're born there after all haha

[IvoryReptiles]

How could they drown if the water doesn't go above their nose? I mean Pacs and Pyxie's are different, but really have a very similar body structure. I understand they aren't like American Bullfrogs in terms of swimming talent, but they do seem to enjoy sitting in water. I had my Pac in a land/water setup, but changed it. Reason being because the filter I was using for the water section wasn't doing a good enough job for me. He was spending probably 75% of his time in the water, and I didn't want him getting sick from dirty water. I now have my pac on wet paper towels, and he's comfortable for now. I don't think a water setup for a baby is a great idea, but for sub-adults/adults I think it could be feasible. My pyxie has had no access to land for the last couple of weeks and is fine. I plan on adding some land for her, but not until I get a bigger tank. When my pac had access to a lot of water he used it all, and I found him swimming underwater across the tank on numerous occasions. I think we underestimate how much they actually like water. They often use the water dish to poo or pee in, and that renders it useless. I'm sure they don't like sitting in a pool of their own pee/poo, and don't stick around for too long once they do. I think the big question here is if given lots clean fresh water to soak in daily, what would the frog do? Sit in the water, or sit in hole it dug for itself? My pac seemed to come out to sit in his moss for periods, but almost always returned to the water. I would say he would stay in the water for a couple of days, and then emerge for one on average. So that alone kind of proved it to me that they really love a good thorough soak/swim. Isn't there someone on here that keeps them in water? I thought I remember seeing a picture of a room with a bunch of pacs in water setups. I could be wrong. But I found this picture of what looks to be a wild pac sitting in a....


POND!! lol

For one, the frog in your photo is an Ornate. I stated C. cranwelli as not being great swimmers.
In your original post, you didn't say the water available in your setup was only nose deep. As for the frogs using the water bowls to poop & pee in, you're right......and when they do, you change it and place fresh water in the bowl. We breed them, so we have quite a few to deal with at any given time. I am not arguing with you, just stating my own experiences. We keep most of ours in tubs on paper towels too.......we clean them every day, sometimes more that twice a day. I figure if you can't bother to provide a clean environment for them, then you shouldn't bother keeping them.......

You originally asked for opinions, I gave mine. If you really don't want opinions, why bother asking for them in the first place?
We have tried all kinds of different setups to see what they were most comfortable with, because in the end, the frogs are what matter, right? Our frogs are healthy & happy. I'm not here to prove anything or compete. Just to share information & experience & a love of these awesome critters.

[dsmalex97]

I am asking for your opinions, and notice how I wrote "debate" in the title. This means I would like to argue lol. Friendly arguing of course. I'm not trying to prove this is a better method, but just possibly prove it is just as good as any other. I know it seems to be frowned upon to use water, and I'm personally puzzled by this that's all. I've always been good for asking "why" and that's simply all I'm doing here. No need to get bent out of shape over a debate over substrate.

1.) Sorry if I wasn't clear as to how much water. I would never put them in a tank of water filled to the top or anything of the sort lol
2.) Are the species that much different in terms of body make up? I'm still a big newb with the difference in species, and didn't know they look that much different or have a different body structure that would alter swimming from species to species. If so please fill me in :]
3.) I'm not saying there's anything wrong with using a water dish and doing what your doing. All I'm trying to get across in this post is that water as a main substrate might be suitable for them.
4.) I found this kind of funny in your post. "We have tried all kinds of different setups to see what they were most comfortable with, because in the end, the frogs are what matter, right?"- This is why I am making this post in the first place. My frog seemed to be quite at home in the water. Therefore I would like to offer a lot of it because he used it 2:1(water/land). This is what my frog seems to prefer and he's what matters. I'm comfortable keeping him in whatever he prefers simple as that.

[Greenhorn]

Honestly, the reason that they are 'found' in these puddles in field studies, is probably because that is where they are the most visible. How many completely burrowed pacs is a researcher likely to find out walking through the rainforest? Not many.

DVirginia, are you a genius or was this purely good unadulterated common sense? I can't tell.

[GrifTheGreat]

DVirginia, are you a genius or was this purely good unadulterated common sense? I can't tell.

I believe its a little bit of both Lol!

[Greenhorn]

It probably is lol

But maybe there is a way to make it a little less messy, and still as effective. Maybe...hmm

But wouldn't it be ideal, because they have the option of a nice pool or somewhere to dry off and dig in?

I think the objections were with the frog not being able to burrow... Earlier it sounded like the frog wouldnt have a place to "dig in"