Update on Motto Motto

[DirtyBird]

Ok, so on the suggestion of the others, i put juvenile Motto back into his rubbermade container, and put that inside the bigger tank. I keep the humidity between 75 and 85. The temp is 80-84. He is on eco-earth substrate. The day light is a dimmed flourescent bulb, the night light is a row of dimmed red LEDs, both on a 8to8 timer. He is still not eating on his own. I have has him about 2.5 months. He ate the first day, then once again a week after, both on his own. But then he wouldn't eat. I waited the first few weeks after moving him, offering him food every night around 10 or 11. Ive offered crickets (small, medium, large), wax worms, butter worms, earth worms, pinkie mice, a mini minnow. Nothing. He wouldn't go for any of it. After the third week, i started to force feed him. I force feed a couple crickets now and then, but mostly butterworms, and earthworms. Dusted in calcium d3, and repti_amphibian vitamin powders every other time, repspectively. Ive been ff for about a week and half now, still offering the food for him to take by himself every time. He still shows now interest in goin himself. He has gained some weight, looking more healthy in that aspect, but.....

I have noticed that he has a mouth deformity... the yellow inner lip on the lower jaw, that is normally not visible with the mouth shut, is always visible, and looks curled out. And the upper lip looks curled under, like its pulled too tight, and wrapped itself under his tooth line. I fist noticed it on the first force feeding, but didnt know it was abnormal till the guy at the lps pointed it out, and showed me the ones he had. Im thinking this could be why he doesnt eat.

Ive also noticed that he doesnt sit right, on his legs. The rear feet usually dont even touch the ground, and the front flop like he has very little control, or not enough strength to hold himself up. I will post pics of him when i get internet back on. (this is on my phone)

[Sublime]

Since the LEDs don't emit heat, do you just use it for viewing him at night? You could try leaving some crickets in there while you leave the room for a few hours instead of watching over him. Some frogs are secret eaters and don't eat readily even if the environment has correct temperature and humidity. The vitamin powder should only be dusted once a week and the calcium with d3 every other day. People have already mentioned stress related issues I'm sure, but I don't know where he is housed or what's the scenario during the day going on around his tank? Could you explain please.

The mouth deformity could be genetic or developed MBD (Metabolic Bone Disease) earlier on (prior to you buying him) that caused his bone development in his mouth to form abnormally. If it were a self-induced injury, it most likely would of already healed in the first couple of weeks. If that were the case, you would need to keep him on a soft diet, i.e. earthworms. What is the procedure during feeding time when he is non interested in food?

This question gets asked thousands of times in the pacman section, but I'll ask it... Do you use dechlorinated water (I'm sure you already do)? Maybe signs of vitamin toxicity; do you notice his legs or feet twitch? Seems like his bone growth has been diminished from not eating (malnutrition) and needs to get more intake of calcium w/ d3 to get his bones working again. By the way, a fluorescent light is not needed for these guys; only if you were growing live plants would it be necessary.

[DirtyBird]

Yea the LEDs are purely for my viewing. The flourescent is for the several live plants in the other end of the 20l tank, that his rubbermaid is inside. I have noticed twitching once, it wasnt for very long, and only the one time. I was suspecting mbd, and i thought dusting wit the calcium-d3 every other time, and then the multi-vit every other time would help stop, or mayb recover him.

I have left med crickets in the rubbermaid for several days, with a piece of that goat loading orange stuff. Nothing. Tried the worms, but they disappear into the dirt. I have only seen two bowel movements since ive had him, one when i got him, and one was about a week ago

[Sublime]

You could get confirmation from a exotic veterinarian (or someone else who has found this effective) to go ahead and pick up Flagyl (Metronidazole) in the oral liquid form and treat your frog for an appetite problem. Don't do the multivitamin that much, more than enough will lead to toxicity quickly. Calcium w/ d3 you don't have to worry about as much - just check to see that your brand doesn't contain high amounts of d3 in it as that is not needed. Calcium is very hard to overdose if you follow a regime.

The temperature at night stays the same as the daytime, even after the daylight goes off and there's only night time viewing?

[vivalabam]

The lip deformity shouldn't stop him eating, one of mine is a grade B so his lip doesn't sit right, he still eats like a trooper!

I just leave crickets in with him over night and they are usually gone by morning.

[DirtyBird]

[DirtyBird]

The night time temps are about 78-79, day time is about 83-84. The pics make his lights look way brighter than they really are

[DirtyBird]

The night time temps are about 78-79, day time is about 83-84. The pics make his lights look way brighter than they really are

[DirtyBird]

Ive also noticed that when he gets his fill of food, his left side gets hard (from the worms) but his right side stays squishy. Is that normal? You can see how the left side gets push out in the pics

[GrifTheGreat]

Ive also noticed that when he gets his fill of food, his left side gets hard (from the worms) but his right side stays squishy. Is that normal? You can see how the left side gets push out in the pics

Yes its normal for the left side to push out and feel hard when he/she is full. Their stomach is on the left. When they have to poop their right side twards the rear will feel hard. Its normal. I do believe your frog is suffering from MBD. Try to keep giving the calcium with D3 every other feeding. As long as when you force feed your frog poops every 5 to 6 days. That is if you are force feeding every day. Be very gentle as the bones may break easily until the bones are hardened. The distortion of his/her face and limbs may not ever correct itself. It is very sad. Your frog has had a very rough life until he/she came to you. You are doing your best. Only give the multivitamin once a week. You don't want to cause your frog tox out. Toxing out is very bad and usually results in death. I hope he/she recovers soon.

Also your daytime and night time temps are fine. Humidity should be 70 to 80%. If your frog has trouble moving around and supporting itself keep the water dish a little more shallow as your frog might get in and have trouble getting out. Since it will have trouble supporting itself it may drown if it can't keep its head up and with its mouth like that it doesn't seal on the upper jaw and water can get in the mouth. You don't want him/her to drown so watch carefully.

[DirtyBird]

Yea I have a feeling he will be handicapped the rest of his life. The best I'm getting my hopes up for is that he will someday eat on his own. That bottom jaw just really bothers me, cause looking at the picture when I got him he didnt have that. Like he developed it. I try dusting the multi vit, but it usually is all off the worm by the time he gets in down, so he is not getting too much of that. Like when I do dust with the vits, Ill do 1 or 2 out of the 6-7 butterworms, and of those two, most is rubbed off before he gets it. I am ritualistic with the calcium/d3 every worm, every other feeding, cause I was always paranoid about the MBD. I feel really bad that there isn't anything else I can do to make him better and healthy...

[GrifTheGreat]

Yea I have a feeling he will be handicapped the rest of his life. The best I'm getting my hopes up for is that he will someday eat on his own. That bottom jaw just really bothers me, cause looking at the picture when I got him he didnt have that. Like he developed it. I try dusting the multi vit, but it usually is all off the worm by the time he gets in down, so he is not getting too much of that. Like when I do dust with the vits, Ill do 1 or 2 out of the 6-7 butterworms, and of those two, most is rubbed off before he gets it. I am ritualistic with the calcium/d3 every worm, every other feeding, cause I was always paranoid about the MBD. I feel really bad that there isn't anything else I can do to make him better and healthy...

It is heartbreaking but I don't believe that it was by any means your fault. He/she was probably not getting what he/she needed as a baby. Poor husbandry performed by chain stores like petsmart/petco/ect is not uncommon and this is the result. Atleast he/she is in a loving home now and is being cared for well. Butterworms aren't very nutritious at all. You should feed chunks of night crawlers/red wigglers/hornworms. These food items are soft easy to digest and nutritious. Plus night crawlers and red wigglers are sticky and the calcium and vitamin dust will stick right to them and is not easy to rub off. These are much better for your frog and will help with recovery.

[Sublime]

Yeah that sucks for that to happen to him - definitely not your fault as Grif mentioned. The setup is nice you have to keep the humidity and heat in with live plants. Is that cantelope in his tank for the crickets to eat if you throw them in there overnight? I'm sure once his system and bone strength is back to normal, you won't need to force feed him anymore. High doubts he'll be handicap the rest of his life. The lip deformation will be a bit more of a struggle, but I don't think that should stop him from eating entirely the rest of his life. Just hard work on you for the first year rejuvenating him.

Calcium and vitamin powder don't even stick to worms excluding the earthworm species. Their tough exterior does not do well for the 'stick' formulas.

[vivalabam]

He was probably born with the deformity, some are. It's not a bad thing, I think it makes them cuter! It also doesn't stop them eating by them self... Mine has a worse mouth shape than yours and he can eat by himself.

[DirtyBird]

Motto ate! By Himself! 2-3 Med crickets!! He looks way better than he did even a week ago.... But, this morning I did notice something odd in his tank.

Little tiny green bugs, that fly. They look like baby fruit flies or gnats, but rounder and green. Never seen them before. Could it be from the pumpkin seeds, which are growing wonderfully!, that I planted in the other part of his tank?

[GrifTheGreat]

Motto ate! By Himself! 2-3 Med crickets!! He looks way better than he did even a week ago.... But, this morning I did notice something odd in his tank.

Little tiny green bugs, that fly. They look like baby fruit flies or gnats, but rounder and green. Never seen them before. Could it be from the pumpkin seeds, which are growing wonderfully!, that I planted in the other part of his tank?

Sounds like a type of knat or fruit fly. Only leave the fruit for the crickets in while he is feeding then remove it and throw it away. This should help stop those knats from staying in there.

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm glad Motto is doing better. Keep it up and keep us posted on his recovery.