I'm scared to force feed my pac man frog

[LIZZIE82]

I don't know what to do.... My sister, who is a reptile breeder and has a lot of experience with amphibians as well.... Gave me her pac man frog about 2 months ago. He's over a year old. He's about the size of a golf ball. He's also albino if that means anything. Anyways, that is his background. When I first got him he was fine and ate just fine. I don't think he's been eating for a couple of weeks now. I have brought his temp up in his viv and noticed that he perked up a little bit. I noticed within the last week that he's not looking so good. I had to change his substrate because I didn't like the the moss I had in there and I haven't changed it since I got him. When I was cleaning it I noticed how much he has NOT been eating. The crickets and roaches had all burrowed when I thought that he was eating some of them. I soaked him in some warm water and I know he needs to eat. I'm scared to force feed him. He's generally got a bad attitude and I'm pretty sure he hates me as it is. There isn't much of herp vets in my area. I took my red eyes to one and generally he tends to think they are goners by the time they get to him. I do have some leftover baytril that I can give but I don't think there is an infection or parasite. I really think it's stress. He needs to eat to overcome this. So, please, someone help and tell me what to do! Or, if you live in Nebraska...come over and do it for me!!!

[dsmalex97]

Well, the fact that you haven't changed the substrate in that long is no bueno...

You should be changing the substrate every month to every other month at the most. You need to give us more information. What are the temps of his enclosure? If it's too hot, or too cold you could be running into problems. Buy a thermometer and hygrometer. You need to verify that all your conditions are correct. 78-83 degree's, and humidity should be up around 70%. I have never had to fore feed, but I have watched a lot of video's on it. It seems pretty easy. If I did it I would back the frog up into the corner of the enclosure, take a credit card, slide it very gently on the side of his mouth and give a small push. His jaw should crack open. Have an earth worm ready and, when he opens put the worm in. Just make sure to be very gentle and not press hard. It shouldn't take much.

Your frog definitely sounds too small. At a year old it should be the size of a softball or so. If he hasn't been eating for that long there could be some kind of issue inside, especially if the conditions haven't been clean. When you feed you should also make sure to watch and see what happens. If you keep it on moss, then that's even MORE of a reason to be VERY observant when you feed. Moss is a tough substrate to digest, and can impact their digestive tract. This could very well be what your problem is right now. I'm not tring to frighten you, but make sure your temp/humidity is perfect. Force feed it some earthworms and give it sometime. If the frog still looks weird bring it to the vet asap. Get it on coco fiber, or maybe even wet paper towel to ensure that your not impacting the frog even more. Again, I don't know this for sure at all because I'm not there, but even coco fiber could cause issues. I'm just trying to come up with a sureshot way of preventing it from happening any more if that is your issue ya know? Please give us more information on your setup, take pictures, do you what you gotta do so we can help you with this better.

[LIZZIE82]

I have spot cleaned for sure. The temps are well within the range and I have recently gotten them a little higher. It runs between 75-80 during the day and drops to maybe 70 at night. I have a side heater. I use coco fiber on the bottom and cover with some moss to help with the humidity. I AM struggling with humidity in all of my vivs now that I have my heater kicking on. I have two humidifiers going in the house, cover half the screen with saran wrap but I can't get it much higher than 60 consistantly. I do have a hygometer as well as thermostat in there. I don't think he's impacted. I know he seems small. My sister thinks he's got failure to thrive and maybe was just doing really well where he was familiar with her.... then, I come along and turn his little world upside down. I feel terrible. Also, I see people say to feed earthworms.... Where do I get those? Like, from the convenience store for bait?? Should I gave him the whole one, cut it up? I feel sooo bad. I don't want to hurt him or make things worse. Right now, he's still pouting and soaking in his dish.

[LIZZIE82]

To be clear, I have spot cleaned the viv in the last 2 months that I have had him.... I just haven't purged it all in the two months that I have had him..... Mainly, I didn't want to stress him and make him throw his lovely tantrums like he did when I got him a bigger, shallower dish. I'm really trying my best with the little guy.

[Capojames]

Has it ever ate? Try to get the heat up to 85

[Sublime]

To add to dsm's post: Dust the food with calcium with d3 and a multivitamin (1:1 ratio). Start from the bottom to the top to see where the problem is. Disinfect tank, change out substrate, and add plants or other hides back into the enclosure. Don't use moss anymore - coconut fiber already holds in moisture really well.

The earthworms (Night crawlers or red wigglers) can be found at: Sporting goods section of Walmart or other Sports Department stores, petco/petsmart, and reptile shops. Just make sure if you buy from Walmart or another non-related pet store, that the worms don't have additives on them.

Glass, plexiglass, or a damp towel works well. Try covering more of an area on your screen lid and leaving 1/4 of it open for airflow where the light fixture is. Dropping to 70 at night isn't horrible, but that is on the low side and need to bring his appetite back up with the heat.

Just let him soak in a shallow-warm tote box or other tank while you're cleaning his main one out for like 20-30 minutes.

[GrifTheGreat]

You are getting good advice here. It is always hard to diagnose over the internet though. Golf-ball size is definitely small for a one year old pacman. They can grow at very different rates, but that is way behind normal growth. Lack of calcium/vitamin supplements, too much stress, not eating enough, and not having a varied diet can all contribute to that. We are not trying to point fingers by asking all these questions. We need as much info on your frog's situation as possible so we can help.

First, are you using dechlorinated water? Are there any other physical symptoms or strange behavior? If he has been eating in with the moss, then impaction is a definite possibility. Most people who use moss feed their frogs in a separate container. When was the last time he had a bowel movement? How frequent are his bowel movements and do you notice anything unusual in them (ie, moss, too much substrate, undigested food)?

Pacmans also get stressed out easily and when they do they often stop eating. You need to cause as little stress as possible. Is the room he is in too noisy? Are there any drafts from windows or air vents? Try to give him as much warmth and quiet as possible. Definitely keep the temps at 80-85 during the day. If you haven't already, you can cover 3 sides of the tank with some sort of background to minimize visual distraction/stress. Try offering worms; they are easier to digest. I know this is stressful, but you need to remain calm. Your frog will pick up on your stress. It's hard to say if it is time to force feed since you don't know exactly how long it has been since he ate. But it may be. Offer food first to see if he takes it. If you force feed, take him out of the inclosure (if you do this in the enclosure he will most likely try to burrow. Also, it is very awkward to try to reach in with your arms). Place him on some damp paper towels (sprayed with decholinated water). Keep the lights dim; bright light or too much noise will stress them out more. It is easiest if you have two people (one to hold the frog steady and the other to feed). Have one person cup the frog; he will try to back away and swat at the card most likely. The other person will gently insert a credit card or shopper card into the corner of the frog's mouth and push down a little. If he does not open his mouth, gradually increase the pressure. In your other hand have the food item ready and pressed against the frog's mouth. When he does open, it will only be for a second; you have to be quick. I've been though this; trust me it takes a few tries and it is stressful for frog and owner but it is better than watching your frog starve to death. Keep us updated.

[GrifTheGreat]

Oh, you don't need to get the entire food item in his mouth. He may try to spit it out, but generally once you get it at least partially in their mouth they will swallow it. Good luck!

[IvoryReptiles]

Just going to add this note folks :

Spot cleaning is good for the month, month 1/2.....but after that the substrate needs to be replaced. You are only picking up feces when spot cleaning, NOT the urine. They urinate alot!! If the urine build up in the substrate, the frog will tox-out and become ill & could expire. Are you using de-chlorinated water on the frog & in the enclosure?

[LIZZIE82]

Yes, he has declorinated water. The more I look at him and the other pacman frogs on here - the more I realize mine doesn't look right. Never has. I think there is a genetic abnormality in him. My sister says that he has never thrived. Has been offered a lot of different types of food and was always content until he came to live with me. I do think he is stressed and I have tried to keep him in a quieter and darker area. The Vet told me to force feed and see if that helps. I didn't completely remove all substrate before to avoid stressing him more.

[GrifTheGreat]

What Ivory said above is absolutely right. They will tox out because of the amonia within their urin. It will settle in the bottom of the substrate and within it. Making the substrate poison earth. You should change the substrate no less than once a month. Any longer is putting your frog at risk. Also after you change it you should toss it once or twice a week and what I mean by toss is take the frog out and soak him for a bit while you reach in with clean washed hands and mix the substrate up. You can mist it while you toss it as well to add some fresh moisture to it and help with humidity for a while. Definetly no more moss and change the substrate no less than once a month. Ivory is a breeder so she can really give you insight on how to keep your frog as can most of us.

[GrifTheGreat]

Yes, he has declorinated water. The more I look at him and the other pacman frogs on here - the more I realize mine doesn't look right. Never has. I think there is a genetic abnormality in him. My sister says that he has never thrived. Has been offered a lot of different types of food and was always content until he came to live with me. I do think he is stressed and I have tried to keep him in a quieter and darker area. The Vet told me to force feed and see if that helps. I didn't completely remove all substrate before to avoid stressing him more.

Fresh substrate/a soak/and force feeding him is the right track to be on now. You don't know how long its been since he has eaten so you should try and get som vitamin and calcium with D3 dusted food in him right away. Also feel his belly and right side gently. If its hard he may be impacted. Check to be sure he isn't.

[dsmalex97]

Good adivice!

Also, would it be possible for you to show us a picture of your setup? Visuals are the best way to see what could be wrong.

[GrifTheGreat]

Good adivice!

Also, would it be possible for you to show us a picture of your setup? Visuals are the best way to see what could be wrong.

Definetly! If you can provide photos of you frog from different angles so we can give him a good looking over would help.

[LIZZIE82]

I'm about to force feed. He is sitting in his water still. After feeding I'm going to give him a soak in some warm water. Oh,, I bought him some repta boost from the pet store. I will give that to him for a few days. I will take some pics then.

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm about to force feed. He is sitting in his water still. After feeding I'm going to give him a soak in some warm water. Oh,, I bought him some repta boost from the pet store. I will give that to him for a few days. I will take some pics then.

Ok remember to be gentle. Keep us posted.

[LIZZIE82]

He did really well! Actually he even opened his mouth for us when he felt the syringe the 2nd time we came at him. :-) he was hungry and ate. I then gave him some fresh water that was warmer, removed the moss, spritzed his tank with water and returned him to Viv. I placed a damp towel 3/4 over the screen, put the heating pad by zoo Med on the end of the tank by where he is in his water dish. I Have a regular heating pad kind of wrapped around It and trying to get the viv to 85 degrees. I forgot to take pics. I removed his plant and just have everything very plain in there until his health improves. He is enjoying the water it seems. I took him out and he quickly threw a fit and got right back in the water. I hope he will improve.

[GrifTheGreat]

He did really well! Actually he even opened his mouth for us when he felt the syringe the 2nd time we came at him. :-) he was hungry and ate. I then gave him some fresh water that was warmer, removed the moss, spritzed his tank with water and returned him to Viv. I placed a damp towel 3/4 over the screen, put the heating pad by zoo Med on the end of the tank by where he is in his water dish. I Have a regular heating pad kind of wrapped around It and trying to get the viv to 85 degrees. I forgot to take pics. I removed his plant and just have everything very plain in there until his health improves. He is enjoying the water it seems. I took him out and he quickly threw a fit and got right back in the water. I hope he will improve.

Very good job. Now you must force feed daily, but offer food first to see if hell try on his own. When or if he doesn't eat force feed him again. The water dish needs to be oposite the heat pad so he can cool off in the water if he gets too hot. They need a temperature gradient. Keep us posted. Careful not to go over 85. 85 is the day time temp. Night should be 75 to 78. Keep him at 80 tonight though. Again, well done.

[dsmalex97]

Good job!!

Keep us posted on his progress please :]

[BG]

Why is the moss still in the tank. The top screen should be switched to a glass top. Start fresh with new coco fiber. Keep him in the warmest room. The temps should be at what was said. This frog size was frozen due to bad husbandry. Put a water dish so he can soak. Get him the earth worms and sprinkle calcium with D3 on the worms and give it to him. Try to drop it in front and see if he will go for it. Frogs love worms.