Pacman frog pulling some WEIRD STUFF.

[Camden]

My pacman frog for one, hasnt eaten since I got him...like three weeks ago. well He might has eaten 3 or 4 crickets.
But right now, he is like pawing at the wall of the tank. I threw some crickets but hes ignored them.
its almost like he's trying to climb the wall of the tank, and its kinda scary cause he flipped over backwards into his water.(hes okay now.)
I'm a bit worried.
What could this be?

[Sublime]

Your frog is suffering from malnutrition, seems to be acting spasmodic resulting from this. You need to force feed him or her a frozen-thawed mouse or a few night crawlers. Buy the liquid calcium and liquid vitamins with a syringe that comes with it and inject it into the mouse. If you are going to do night crawlers, supplement those with a 1:1 ratio of calcium with d3 and multivitamin to get your frogs nutrients back in him or her. This may cause digestive uptake, but with a proper ratio of 1:1, it shouldn't affect your frog's metabolism. Reason being is he needs both quickly, multivitamin and calcium with d3.

Procedure for force feeding:
1. Take a spoon, butter knife, or credit card.
2. Gently lower the bottom lip of the frog while having your other hand ready with the tongs.
3. Once frog opens mouth, insert real quick and let him or her do the rest of the work.

Hope he or she pulls through - 3 weeks without food is not good. Update us please.

[GrifTheGreat]

I'm sorry to hear that. Three weeks is a long time without food and you should probably force feed. I would recommend starting with the worms because they are easier to digest. How big is your frog? If he is under 2 inches then you probably don't want to give him a mouse.

We could use some more info. Is the frog showing any other physical symptoms? What are the terrarium conditions? Temp? Humidity? Substrate? etc. Also, how big is the tank? When Loki was a baby, we had him in a large critter keeper. One day I checked on him and he was trying to climb up the walls and bumping against them. I moved him into a ten gallon and he has been happy as a clam ever since. If there is something wrong with their conditions they will sometimes try to get away. Say if the substrate is too wet or too dry... check to make sure their isn't anything irritating your frog. You are going to need to get some food into him quickly though. Good luck and keep us posted.

[IvoryReptiles]

Mark.....please stop telling people to force feed mice or pinkies. If a frog needs to be force fed, that is NOT the meal it should be fed.

If your frog is trying to climb walls, it is stressed and something in the enclosure is not right. I will ask yet again....are you using de-chlorinated water for the frog? How often do you clean the substrate and how wet do you keep it? WHat type of heating source are you using (if any)?.........and all the questions that Grif asked too.

[Sublime]

Yes; I agree with the conditions your pacman is housed in has led to stress, therefore not eating.

However; I don't agree with you (Ivory) saying that a mouse is NOT right in this situation. It's very applicable in this situation - it's not impossible for pacman's to digest a mouse, especially prior to it not eating for awhile. I've seen a few experienced pacman owners force feed mice to ones that don't feed as readily or are wild caught after a few weeks. Everything has worked out fine.

[Camden]

Hi all. I successfully force fed for the first time. But I got him at a rather large size so hes maybe a little smaller if not the size of a baseball.
I force-fed him a mouse and he is looking back to normal now. I think the reason of his not eating was because he is cold, I had a small heating pad on the side but it did nothing.
Luckily, I ordered pet millipedes (NOT FOOD!) Online last week, and I also ordered some heating pads for them. They are a little bigger, so I used one of those on the side of my frogs tank. But for some reason he is chirping, not moving away from the heating pad, but he is making little "cheep" sounds?
Next time I force feed should I feed him a worm or another mouse? (They are dead/frozen/thawed fuzzies.)

[Camden]

Ivory. Yes I am using de-chlorinated fresh spring water. He was looking rather skinny. And it was the first day besides when I first got him that he had done this. I clean the substrate probably once every two weeks, and I mist it once a day. twice if needed.

[IvoryReptiles]

It could all be due to stress then. The climbing glass bit is a dead give away.

Mark, I have found that if & when we do need to force feed, we use an easily digestible item so that it goes through the frog's system fairly quickly and we can offer food soon after again......this has worked really well for us, it seems to me that if given a rodent when force fed, it takes quite a while to digest and then we have to force feed again.

We also have a Vet who specializes in reptiles & amphibians who agreed with our practices. Force feeding is something that experienced keepers practice but is often discouraged in first time keepers. At the very least, take the frog to an experienced vet to assist in the force feeding to help teach technique & tips......to help teach the proper way to perform the procedure. Just giving asked for advice & info.

[GrifTheGreat]

Hi all. I successfully force fed for the first time. But I got him at a rather large size so hes maybe a little smaller if not the size of a baseball.
I force-fed him a mouse and he is looking back to normal now. I think the reason of his not eating was because he is cold, I had a small heating pad on the side but it did nothing.
Luckily, I ordered pet millipedes (NOT FOOD!) Online last week, and I also ordered some heating pads for them. They are a little bigger, so I used one of those on the side of my frogs tank. But for some reason he is chirping, not moving away from the heating pad, but he is making little "cheep" sounds?
Next time I force feed should I feed him a worm or another mouse? (They are dead/frozen/thawed fuzzies.)

For one Ivory breeds these frogs and know a lot about them. I'm not going to argue the pinky issue. I will say this and hope that it is very well understood. If the frog hasn't eaten in 3 weeks then not only is the frog weak, but its digestive system may not work at full strength and therefore since it is difficult for frogs to digest mammalian tissue then it would be ill advised to feed a pinky to the frog as it could do more harm than good. Also just because it worked for one frog doesn't mean that it is a scientifically proven fact that it will work for another. I'm not bashing anyone here. I'm saying it is best to start with something that will provide more energy than it will take to digest that food item. Best to start with foods that they already like or more easily digested. A pinky can take a week or more to digest possibly longer if the frog is weak. You need a temp of 80 to 85 during the day and 75 to 78 at night. Humidity must be 60 to 80% preferably 70 to 80% as its more ideal. If you need more heat you can buy a heat lamp. Best to use with these frogs is one with a dimmer switch so you can control the amount of heat and light coming from the bulb. Do you have 3 sides of the terrarium covered wit some sort of background? Haveing 3 side covered makes the frog feel more secure and less stressed.

Next forc feed I suggest you feed him/her a night crawler. It will help pass the pinky later. Keep us posted.

[Eel Noob]

So I figure it was up for the three weeks and not asleep? Because these frogs can sleep, and I do mean sleep lol.

I do agree though, it does sound like conditions are not to it's liking that's why it's trying to escape.

[Sublime]

It could all be due to stress then. The climbing glass bit is a dead give away.

Mark, I have found that if & when we do need to force feed, we use an easily digestible item so that it goes through the frog's system fairly quickly and we can offer food soon after again......this has worked really well for us, it seems to me that if given a rodent when force fed, it takes quite a while to digest and then we have to force feed again.

We also have a Vet who specializes in reptiles & amphibians who agreed with our practices. Force feeding is something that experienced keepers practice but is often discouraged in first time keepers. At the very least, take the frog to an experienced vet to assist in the force feeding to help teach technique & tips......to help teach the proper way to perform the procedure. Just giving asked for advice & info.

Alright, I understand and respect your given advice. I just wanted to ask you a few questions though to clear some unclear information. How many earthworms would you have to feed to force feed to your frog to get them (per say) healthy and or back up to weight? In your experience, have you found that after the first force feed of earthworms that they eat - they tend to get their strength and appetite back? It just seems to me that, it would be more logical to give them more of a fulfilling meal that is nutritionally rich and contains some fat percentage. Even though as we are all aware, vertebrates are hard on frogs organs (specifically the kidney & liver) to an extent.

Also, how come you guys would have to force feed again after feeding it a mouse? George had a great testimonial; I don't know if you saw it, but his pacman was on his death bed (Skinny, weak) and he force fed it an injected mouse with the outcome of it saving his frogs life and bringing him back to health.

Take care,

Mark

PS: I'm trying to be constructive and not destructive, something John gave me advice on.

[GrifTheGreat]

Alright, I understand and respect your given advice. I just wanted to ask you a few questions though to clear some unclear information. How many earthworms would you have to feed to force feed to your frog to get them (per say) healthy and or back up to weight? In your experience, have you found that after the first force feed of earthworms that they eat - they tend to get their strength and appetite back? It just seems to me that, it would be more logical to give them more of a fulfilling meal that is nutritionally rich and contains some fat percentage. Even though as we are all aware, vertebrates are hard on frogs organs (specifically the kidney & liver) to an extent.

Also, how come you guys would have to force feed again after feeding it a mouse? George had a great testimonial; I don't know if you saw it, but his pacman was on his death bed (Skinny, weak) and he force fed it an injected mouse with the outcome of it saving his frogs life and bringing him back to health.

Take care,

Mark

PS: I'm trying to be constructive and not destructive, something John gave me advice on.

You better or he'll get his nanny hat on and come after you Lol!

Like I posted though. That was one frog. I had to force feed Grif 2 a week for 4 weeks and then she started eating on her own with a Hornworm which also is an easily digeted food not like mice. That should answer that question if she doesn't. Remember like their personalities their bodies are different as well. I fed her easily digested and already liked foods for a month before that to condition her digestive system. Think about that 2 per week for 4 weeks. With vitamins and calcium. Still took 2 months for her to recover. And she was also on her death bed.

I just don't think its good for an unexperienced frog owner to try this method of food item first. My opinion that's all.

[Sublime]

Alright, thanks for the information. That pretty much cleared it all up for me.

And no, I don't want John to get his nanny hat on next time because I'm sure it will be a ban and not a warning. Lol.

[GrifTheGreat]

Alright, thanks for the information. That pretty much cleared it all up for me.

And no, I don't want John to get his nanny hat on next time because I'm sure it will be a ban and not a warning. Lol.

Yeah I don't think you need a ban from the forum. I don't think I could get through the day without getting on here atleast once Lol! I'm on here way too much.

[Sublime]

I would go into a mental state of confusion if I missed a day being on here.

[Camden]

Whenever I force-fed him a fuzzy last night, he was doing fine. And is still doing fine. When should I feed him next?

[GrifTheGreat]

Whenever I force-fed him a fuzzy last night, he was doing fine. And is still doing fine. When should I feed him next?

You could wait a day if you like or force feed him a night crawler tomorrow at feeding time. Give a variety while force feeding as it will help a lot. I would use a night crawler or two this time. Try small meals each day. Skip a day due to the pinky as it will take a while to digest.

[DVirginiana]

I can't believe how long it's been since I've been on here!

Just a suggestion; if you're going to force-feed a mouse, use a pinkie, not a fuzzy. The fuzzies are more developed and have fur. This can lead to impaction or constipation in even healthy animals. I've even seen this happen in snakes. IMO it'd be safer to go with a pinkie. You get the same basic nutritional value with less risk of complication. Hope he starts eating on his own again soon! I find that leaving one cricket in the enclosure overnight will sometimes start them up once they're on their way to recovery. Something about being in the dark and quiet that makes them more likely to go for food.