Have you guys met BOO?

[Sublime]

Oh yes, it is very bad. Causes complications later on in their life, kidney and liver failure. Frogs unlike snakes don't come across rodents in the wild for most of their life. They aren't able to break down mammalian tissue and vertebrates with a backbone as easily - i.e. a mouse, rat, chick, and quail without it being problematic if not left to let their kidney and liver synthesize the proteins and do their job breaking down the tissue along with the backbone. That's why the staple diets that are always recommended are invertebrates (Without a backbone). Crickets, locusts, roaches, earthworms are all good which I know you are aware of.

A mouse fed sparingly though is actually quite beneficial for your frog - can offer an extra source of nutritional value and variety. You want to see a couple of big males?

[Jimifrog]

Boo is quite the hunter. But Oz is a freaking monster. A couple of my ABFs are stalker/hunters like that, although none of them are close to Oz's monstrous size. 10 inches is nuts.

[Sublime]

I asked jelasphatphibs over youtube about what factors you think Oz got that big - diet, housing, etc. They said they got him from a previous owner that exercised great husbandry and a varied diet. They didn't go really into detail, but I'm guessing genetics played the most important factor for Oz's individual massive size.

[Jimifrog]

Also, isn't Oz wc? It seems like the true monsters are.

[Sublime]

I'm not entirely sure if he is a wc. I'm leaning on the side of him being a cb since they've never mentioned anything about him related to being wc. His size does resemble those monsters found out in the wild, I agree.

[chris2pher]

funny i never see anyone showing my big guy .... great posting though

[dsmalex97]

funny i never see anyone showing my big guy .... great posting though

Who's your big boy?

[Sublime]

funny i never see anyone showing my big guy .... great posting though

Chubz is a big boy, but I don't think he's fully grown yet. Last time I saw one of your vids you said something like he's around a year old and he looked to be 6-7" svl.

[7urb0]

[QUOTE=Sublime;86103]Oh yes, it is very bad. Causes complications later on in their life, kidney and liver failure. Frogs unlike snakes don't come across rodents in the wild for most of their life. They aren't able to break down mammalian tissue and vertebrates with a backbone as easily - i.e. a mouse, rat, chick, and quail without it being problematic if not left to let their kidney and liver synthesize the proteins and do their job breaking down the tissue along with the backbone. That's why the staple diets that are always recommended are invertebrates (Without a backbone). Crickets, locusts, roaches, earthworms are all good which I know you are aware of.

A mouse fed sparingly though is actually quite beneficial for your frog - can offer an extra source of nutritional value and variety. You want to see a couple of big males?


i'll have to disagree on that. have you seen the poop after it eating a mouse? nothing is left, backbone or fur. just a big pile of sh*t lol. i think the problem is due to the high fat content of mice and rats. similar to human if we were to eat too much cheeseburger. insects to them are like salads to us. that's just my honest opinion.

[Sublime]

@7urb The feces that you're seeing is the process of an enzymatic reaction composed from the liver and kidney. Would you agree that the high fat content (tissue), blocks and puts up a 'wall' surrounding the chemical break down process in their organs to do their job accordingly compared to something common in their diet (invertebrates)? It's not so much of an issue of the feces containing undigested product, but more of an issue of not understanding the consequences of feeding vertebrates too often (digestive system-process).

[Jimifrog]

@7urb The feces that you're seeing is the process of an enzymatic reaction composed from the liver and kidney. Would you agree that the high fat content (tissue), blocks and puts up a 'wall' surrounding the chemical break down process in their organs to do their job accordingly compared to something common in their diet (invertebrates)? It's not so much of an issue of the feces containing undigested product, but more of an issue of not understanding the consequences of feeding vertebrates too often (digestive system-process).

Yeah, what he said...enyzymey stuff. Yeah. Dang, I'm not bright. Next time "mousey bad, wormy good" will be fine.

[7urb0]

i think we call all agree that too much rodents are bad and a varied diet are good.

[Malachi]

I wouldn't say vertebrates cause issues to all frogs general as a fact. I remember reading about the stomach content of ornate pacman frogs in the wild. They had other frogs as their top gut content. Pacman frogs are known to be frog eaters, thus their shape. However they do not live long healthy lives in the wild either. So its possible that a frog diet leads getting them to a breeding/large size the quickest, but might be a risky food item. The disease risk would be very great imo.

It would be very interesting to see what African Bullfrogs have in their stomachs in the wild. It would be my guess that the large male would have a lot large prey items but also a very diverse diet. I wish there was more research and facts that were backed up by documented research. Sublime might I ask where you got your enzyme information from? I am not disagreeing or debating what you said in any way, I would like to read it.

I wish to have my frog live long and healthy. For me it seems like nightcrawlers and the occasional large item are working, so I will continue that route.

It is pretty obvious even if its not proven, that an only rodent fed frog has health problems. Dieng early, lethargic, blind ...ect

[Sublime]

@Malachi Yeah true, cornuta pacman frogs feed primarily on frogs in the wild. I guess my answer was a little distorted; If I had to rephrase from the sentence it would be that I meant high fat-content vertebrates, but the info is out there that too many vertebrates can and will cause complications so we can both agree on that. Disease risk is also another factor, however frogs in the same region typically adapt immunity to the diseases found among their environment.

For the references I used talking about the enzyme process, some if it was general knowledge (red meat in our diet not so good because of the high fat content and tissue that applies to the same general rule of feeding too many vertebrates to frogs), and some of the other information I briefly researched was just googling "kidney and liver failure" or "how does the break down process occur in the organs". Don't have the specific websites for you as I just google real quick to sound knowledgeable or helpful (lol) and get it from wikipedia or a few other sites, sorry. Also another source I gathered for this was from the care sheet written on African Bullfrogs by John where he is breaking down why it's not good for frogs to be fed excess amounts of vertebrates.

[googie]

If I'm not mistaken I remember reading one of the problems with a "rodent overload", one which the rodent is the main part of the frogs diet, is lipid depostion in the eyes, resulting in possible blindness.

googie