What silicone/paint would be safe for frogs?

[SludgeMunkey]

The make up of the actual paint is not the issue. It is the pigments used.

Many colors use toxic metals and oxides of heavy metals. Cobalt and its various forms are extremely common. Copper, Copper oxides, Cupric silfides, and Pthalates are also very, very common. ALL are toxic to animals in enclosures and should never be used, even if sealed.

In general, avoid greens, blues and violets. Use red and yellow with caution. Brown is also a tricky one, so read the labels and look up what the pigments are. NEVER use metallic paints.

Acrylics and Urethanes are normally safe. ALL Spray paints should be avoided. Epoxies are superior, if aquaculture rated forms can be found.

Titanium based whites and blacks are fine, as are ochers and umbers. Siennas are also fine. Carbon blacks are my personal favorites.

Personally, I only use seven colors. I just mix and match on the fly to get the desired effects.

I use Liquitex BASICS brand (read that as I am a cheapskate!)

Mars Black

Titanium White

Raw Sienna
Raw Umber

Burnt Sienna
Burnt Umber

Yellow Ocher

For sealer, I use either aquaculture rated epoxies, potable water rated epoxies without anti fungal and bacterials, and my personal favorite Krylon semi-gloss aerosol clear urethane.



A good rule to follow is that if you cannot pronounce the pigment, skip it.

In other words, When in doubt, leave it out!


There is a huge controversy over which one to use or which is safer.

Yes there is, however the controversy is misguided.

Truth be told, the formulas for GE silicone are nearly identical. The differences are in percentages of the mix, and the presence of UV stabilizers and anti-fungals. For structural builds, like tank walls and bottoms, you must use aquarium rated silicone. Period. It has the highest tensile strength of any consumer grade silicone. The recipe has nothing to do with it being aquarium grade. For non structural building, like glueing stuff to tank walls, any silicone that does not have anti-fungal/bacterials added is fine.

As for the bit on "outgassing" I hate to say it, but they all outgas the same stuff. This myth is a result of folks allowing insufficient curing times. For aquaria and vivaria, my rule is, let it cure by the instructions, then add a month to that, just to be safe. The "thicker" you apply these adhesives the longer you need to let them sit. (This is one of the reasons many of my build projects take months to finish!)

The existing controversy is a direct result of the poorly informed discussing things they never even bothered to research for themselves and then making statements based on anecdotal information and hearsay with absolutely no ground or facts to back them up. (Not to insult anyone, but I actually took the time to personally contact the manufacturers on this topic quite some time ago.) Need proof? Look up the MSDS for the products and start there. By US law, they have to list things like the ingredients, toxicity, effects on aquatic life, etc. If you still are unsure, do not be afraid to contact the manufacture. Again, in the US, you have "The Right to know" and they must provide toxicity data free of charge on request.

it may take a few weeks to get an answer, but in my world, I long delay is always better than dead critters.

[rosaphile]

Thanks Johnny, that's very informative! I will definitely keep this info in mind when planning more involved vivarium builds (oh yes, there will be more ). For this time, since I'm just doing the drain pipe, I will look for the matte black acrylic primer you mentioned earlier. I've ordered a 10-gal aquarium with screen lid from Wal-mart ($25 including shipping, and the reviews are all positive!) to use as a temporary habitat if we end up with froglets. I have a very strong feeling that at some point in the future that will become an aquaterrarium for fire bellied toads, and I'd love to do some "viviscaping" at that point.

[Monty]

Johnny, thank you for this great info! We're looking to build our own wall/background from something like (what do you call it in English?) Great Foam(?).
Would a layer of aquarium rated silicone be enough to make it waterproof? Or should we be looking at other things? We want to make sure what we'll use is safe for our fire bellied toads of course

[SludgeMunkey]

Thanks Johnny, that's very informative! I will definitely keep this info in mind when planning more involved vivarium builds (oh yes, there will be more ). For this time, since I'm just doing the drain pipe, I will look for the matte black acrylic primer you mentioned earlier. I've ordered a 10-gal aquarium with screen lid from Wal-mart ($25 including shipping, and the reviews are all positive!) to use as a temporary habitat if we end up with froglets. I have a very strong feeling that at some point in the future that will become an aquaterrarium for fire bellied toads, and I'd love to do some "viviscaping" at that point.

I should clarify that after some research I found that the Acrylic matte black spray PRIMERS are safe to use (as I stated to avoid spray PAINT in the previous post!).

Johnny, thank you for this great info! We're looking to build our own wall/background from something like (what do you call it in English?) Great Foam(?).
Would a layer of aquarium rated silicone be enough to make it waterproof? Or should we be looking at other things? We want to make sure what we'll use is safe for our fire bellied toads of course

When it comes to the urethane foam products like "Great Stuff", there is no need to waterproof them. Once fully cured, they are by nature waterproof. While I no longer use aerosol foams like these due to their long term instability, the secret to working with them is to use small amounts over time for proper curing. If a large mass is created, it can take months (and in one case here in my project room), years to fully cure. The real need for sealing urethane foam products is that they are extremely susceptible to degradation due to ultraviolet exposure. These foams quickly disintegrate into a sand like particulate that is hazardous to amphibian digestive cycles.

[SludgeMunkey]

I currently have a long term experiment going on the viability of DTM type epoxy mastics for vivaria and aquaria use. Once they fix the spectrum analyzer at the University, I will be able to show some interesting data on the effects of long term immersion and high humidity on the commonly used materials in the vivaria hobby. As of right now my results are incomplete, but when I am able to process the remainder of water samples I suspect an interesting trend will continue.

[vixxy]

ok, so dumb question then....basically anytime a silicone says "mold/ mildew resistent" on it that would mean that is has the harmful fugisides, right?

[SludgeMunkey]

Not necessarily! As silicone does not actually support mold growth, it all is technically "resistant". Fungi will grow on the layer of bacterial matting that forms on the surface of the sealant though.

As a result, many products designed for kitchen and bath use have additives to kill bacteria, mold and mildew that attempt to grow on the filthy surface of the silicone over time.

As a general rule, if it says kitchen and bath anywhere on the label, I do not use it. The various brands and versions I use are normally rated for exterior window and door use. If you are really lucky, you can find versions specifically designed for pond and water garden use. (Buy these if you find them!)

On that note, never use versions rated for HVAC use. They always have antifungals and antibacterials. (Thank you Legionnaire's disease...)