Need help with sex of tree frog and toad...

[busytiredmom4]

I have a 5 month old Pacific Tree Frog that I've raised since a tadpole. I've determined her to be female since her throat is white and she measures slightly larger than a male. I've been having doubts in the last few weeks and was hoping for some help...

1. Her throat is very white 90% of the time, but I notice if she hasn't eaten that day, it will darken. I've read that it's normal and due to some sort of deficiency. It also goes back to being white immediately after eating. When the throat does darken, it's not very dark, just noticeable enough...Has anyone else experienced this or heard of it and if so, do I need to do anything different? My frogs eat daily (flies, crickets, and other bugs except for beetles) so she's not going hungry...

2. If her throat darkening isn't from a deficiency, could she be male? (I attached a close up pic but the picture makes it look darker than it really is. It's slightly darker right by her bottom lip but I've seen pics of male tree frogs and it's brown almost to their belly.

3. My supposed female tree frog croaks day and night. Her throat barely even puffs out, unlike the males. It just started a week ago and I confirmed it's her and not my toad. It's a dainty "crek-crek" but it doesn't sound like a warning croak towards my toad (in same cage), even though every time I've seen/heard her croak, my toad is near her, but not bothering her at all. I was thinking she's just very vocal and there's always a lot of noise and commotion. Her cage sits right stop our TV in the busiest room in our home, which may contribute to the croaking since I know females don't really do it.

Now on to my California toad, who's approx. 5-6 months old and was found by a lake...

We're having a hard time determining sex of Spotty. He's got dainty thin fingers and legs, his belly is pure white with the black speckles and he's got yellow pads on all fingers. His skin is tight and the throat is as well. I've seen pics of male California toads and they look very different from him. They've got looser skin and the throat is more puffed out. And it's never croaked for any reason. (I've attached pics)

If anyone can give me a clue, not because it matters either way, but because I hate not knowing and it's driving me crazy LOL. Any help would be appreciated. Also if you need a better pic, I can take a better one with my kids' help. Thanks!

[Poly]

Hi busytiredmom4, and welcome to the forum! (Love the username... )

Sorry, I can't help with the tree frog, I've got zip experience with them.

As for the toad, an easy, fool proof way to sex them is by waiting for them to "croak". A toad has a very distinctive call, almost like a shrill peep. My two toads never uttered a peep, until one morning (around 4:00am) I was woken up by my toad "croaking", thus telling me that it is a male. They are around 6 months old, so if yours is a male, it will start to croak, very soon!

You don't keep those two in the same tank, do you?

[Heatheranne]

Welcome to the forum . I am not much help with these particular species as I only have retf's and a pacman. But there are lots of people here who can help.

[busytiredmom4]

Hi busytiredmom4, and welcome to the forum! (Love the username... )

Sorry, I can't help with the tree frog, I've got zip experience with them.

As for the toad, an easy, fool proof way to sex them is by waiting for them to "croak". A toad has a very distinctive call, almost like a shrill peep. My two toads never uttered a peep, until one morning (around 4:00am) I was woken up by my toad "croaking", thus telling me that it is a male. They are around 6 months old, so if yours is a male, it will start to croak, very soon!

You don't keep those two in the same tank, do you?

Thank you so much for your reply...I'm starting to think toad is a female and tree frog is male and others have as well. I've been woken up by my tree frog croaking and it only does it when toad is in view (just started calling 1 week ago). It doesn't sound like a typical mating call, more like a "leave me alone" call. Toad is twice tree frog's size as well and yes, they have been in same tank for 2 months. They get along and I've never seen them bother each other or act threatening. Toad thinks it's a tree frog because he tries to climb the vine and walls and follows tree frog everywhere. I'd hate to put in separate tanks, but if it's best for my babies, I gotta do it. What do you think will happen if they're left in same tank? I've heard of frogs eating each oher, but only if the larger one is MUCH bigger than smaller one. Again, thanks for post!

[Poly]

There are multiple things that could happen!

The toad may even try to eat the tree frog, my toad tried to eat a baby toad I was raising, so don't think it's above them

I'd seperate them, toads can produce poison that will kill other species of frogs, and they could transfer parasites between the two of them.

Never mix mix different species of amphibians, each animal could/can be slowly killing off the other, because they release poison/toxins that arn't good for other amphibians.

For the safety and well-being of them both, seperation is what's needed.

Want your toad to have a buddy? Get another toad of the same species, same goes for the tree frog.

You should know though, tree-frogs are more of a "social" amphibian, they will stay together, but toads are solitary, and only come together to mate.

I keep two american toads together though, and they get along fine.

~Royce

[Medgrik]

It deff. sounds like the Tree Frog is male. The PCF usually doesn't like a different species around them so i would deff. separate them. I have 3 PCF's: 2 little female ones that are growing and a male that is an adult and they LOVE to be around each other! I just got home from work and looked in the tank all 3 of them burrowed into the moss an inch away from each other. They are fun to have and are very entertaining when they are awake and hopping all around there terrarium.

[busytiredmom4]

It deff. sounds like the Tree Frog is male. The PCF usually doesn't like a different species around them so i would deff. separate them. I have 3 PCF's: 2 little female ones that are growing and a male that is an adult and they LOVE to be around each other! I just got home from work and looked in the tank all 3 of them burrowed into the moss an inch away from each other. They are fun to have and are very entertaining when they are awake and hopping all around there terrarium.

Thank you for your reply! Well, I just confirmed PCF is definitely male. For couple weeks, I've heard croaking but when I get close enough to check it out, he stops. Then tonight, he was very vocal and I saw for myself his throat sac was inflated and his throat is remaining dark, instead of going from light to dark and vice versa. For 5 months, I've raised him since a tadpole and come to know him as a "she"...that's going to take some getting used to. And tonight when I witnessed the enlarged vocal sac and calling, my toad was in view of him, so maybe my toad is a female. Or do they call to either sex? My toad is about the same age so we'll have to wait and see about the sex of that one if it calls. I'm leaning towards female, personally. I'm adding more to my collection within next few months, preferably Clown Tree frog or Monkey tree frog, but I'd not picky. I already had a 5.5 gallon aquarium tank that's much larger than their existing tank so I'm moving them over in morning. Even though I don't think anything bad would happen between them (agressiveness), they are animals and it's nature. I'll be separating them, but keeping their tanks next to each other so at least they can see each other. They're buddies and used to sleep together and soak together, hip to hip. Since we've had toad for 2 months, he thinks he's a tree frog. He'll somehow climb the terrarium wall to the top and stick to it like tree frogs do. then he'll climb on the vine that PCF sleeps in and imitate her. It's adorable and I hate to seperate, but if it's in their best interest, gotta do it. They're like my children-love these little guys tremendously! Again, thanks for your post. Very helpful!

[John]

As Royce said, I hope they're not living together.

The Pacific Tree Frog has to be male, you are correct. I've never heard of this so-called deficiency briefly turning their throats dark. If you have a reference for this, please post it. It seems nonsensical to me.

The toad is hard to sex from the photos. If I had to take a guess I'd say female but that's a very wild guess.