Water dish problem & tree frog/toad in same terrarium

[busytiredmom4]

I have 2 herps, both 5 months old. Female Pacific tree frog and an unknown sex California Toad (I'm thinking female, but not sure). We have them in same terrarium and they haven't had any problems with each other. In fact, my toad copies the tree frog and tries unsuccessfully to climb walls but has managed to climb the vine and sleep all the way at the top. When we first brought "Spotty" (toad) home, he'd follow Hoppy everywhere and they'd soak together, completely touching and if frog would scoot over, he'd get closer. Absolutely precious! Question: should I encounter any problems with this arrangement? Spotty the toad is twice her length, but he's never acted in a threatening manner so I'm thinking it's good for them to have a buddy.

Also, when I first got Hoppy tree frog as a tadpole, then a froglet, she was in a Critter Keeper, but the largest one they have. I'd guess it's slightly smaller than a 10 gallon tank. I have sphagum peat moss for substrate, a half log for hiding, a vertical anchor for Hoppy to hang out on and a artificial vine/plant that she loves to climb. Although I'd like it bigger and know that tree frogs need vertical terrariums with climbing apparatus, they are perfectly content. But they are only 5 months old and my toad continues to grow. If I can keep them in same terrarium, what would be a good size considering I'm going to be adding another small tree frog soon, which makes 3.

One more related question...Spotty the toad is a huge spazz and is always jumping around, trying to climb the walls, etc. But when he does this, he jumps or lands in the water dish with his big butt and within 20 minutes, all the water is splashed out. I've tried different things like moving in middle of terrarium, but it keeps happening. Now I'm forced to just keep "flooding" one part of the tank so there's sufficient soaking water, but then the substrate (bottom layer filled with coconut husk, which looks like dirt to me) just does it's job and absorbs the water and Hoppy tree frog isn't aquatic and is a little prissy....she doesn't like specks of dirt on her, which happens because everything's wet. Is there a way to seperate the tank into aquatic/dry without spending a whole lot of money. Next month, I'm upgrading to larger terrarium, but for now, I gotta rig this myself and cheaply. any help or advice would help greatly as these are my babies and I love them more than anything and just like my kids, I just want them to be happy, healthy and comfortable. Thanks

[rosaphile]

Sorry, I know this comment will be next to useless, but I just love how you describe your little buddies! They sound adorable!

[ViperJr]

You do want to separate these to two as soon as possible. I can unfortunately not give a more elaborate post right now, but here are three main concerns:

1. Not being the same species, they are very like to stress each other very much. Stress is very dangerous amongst amphibians. And about their "cuddling"... Well, they're not cuddling. The only way the see each other is like competitors for food and an "unwanted neighbor" (not being the same species). It's easy to infuse amphibians with human feelings, but unfortunately it's not correct.

2. Each frog species produce a skin secrete, which is potentiality dangerous to other species when in contact over a long period of time, like in a terrarium. So the frogs can indirectly poison each other over time.

3. The toad have parotoid glands, which produces a neurotoxin, that is directly dangerous to your tree frog.

Basically, if you love your frogs like you're describing (and I'm sure you do), you'll setup another terrarium quickly. Best of luck!

[UncleChester]

...Spotty the toad is twice her length, but he's never acted in a threatening manner so I'm thinking it's good for them to have a buddy.

If the toad acts in a threatening manner and decides to eat (or even just try to eat) the chorus frog, it will be a little late so I agree with Martin- you should separate your toad from your frog.

Here's a couple care sheets you might want to read if you haven't already:

Frog Forum - Pacific Chorus Frog

Frog Forum - Toad Basics - Keeping ground-dwelling Toads. A care sheet for Bufo, Anaxyrus, Spea, Scaphiopus, Ollotis, Alytes, Pelobates

[John]

The toad sounds distressed to me - it should have its own suitable terrarium any how.

[busytiredmom4]

You do want to separate these to two as soon as possible. I can unfortunately not give a more elaborate post right now, but here are three main concerns:

1. Not being the same species, they are very like to stress each other very much. Stress is very dangerous amongst amphibians. And about their "cuddling"... Well, they're not cuddling. The only way the see each other is like competitors for food and an "unwanted neighbor" (not being the same species). It's easy to infuse amphibians with human feelings, but unfortunately it's not correct.

2. Each frog species produce a skin secrete, which is potentiality dangerous to other species when in contact over a long period of time, like in a terrarium. So the frogs can indirectly poison each other over time.

3. The toad have parotoid glands, which produces a neurotoxin, that is directly dangerous to your tree frog.

Basically, if you love your frogs like you're describing (and I'm sure you do), you'll setup another terrarium quickly. Best of luck!

Thank you for your advice. I knew about the toad's paratoid glands, but I din't think they would use it against a tankmate. Occasionally during feeding, toad will kind of lick or try to nip at tree frog while he's on the wall. He's not agressive about it, and frog isn't doing anything to him. I don't know what to make of that. My toad pretty much stopped his 'spazzing' out by trying to obsessively climb the walls. I moved them both to a bigger tank so they have more room. I do notice (about them stressing) that my male tree frog calls A LOT and it seems to be only when the toad is in sight. Not in a threatening manner (I'm pretty sure toad is female), just in view. Should I worry? I know frogs call to warn off others. I'm moving them to separate tanks this week. They stay away from each other and do their own thing, but I still worry. Thanks!

Renee

[Poly]

Glad to hear your seperating them! It's for the best...

[flybyferns]

I have 2 herps, both 5 months old. Female Pacific tree frog and an unknown sex California Toad (I'm thinking female, but not sure). We have them in same terrarium and they haven't had any problems with each other. In fact, my toad copies the tree frog and tries unsuccessfully to climb walls but has managed to climb the vine and sleep all the way at the top. When we first brought "Spotty" (toad) home, he'd follow Hoppy everywhere and they'd soak together, completely touching and if frog would scoot over, he'd get closer. Absolutely precious! Question: should I encounter any problems with this arrangement? Spotty the toad is twice her length, but he's never acted in a threatening manner so I'm thinking it's good for them to have a buddy.

Also, when I first got Hoppy tree frog as a tadpole, then a froglet, she was in a Critter Keeper, but the largest one they have. I'd guess it's slightly smaller than a 10 gallon tank. I have sphagum peat moss for substrate, a half log for hiding, a vertical anchor for Hoppy to hang out on and a artificial vine/plant that she loves to climb. Although I'd like it bigger and know that tree frogs need vertical terrariums with climbing apparatus, they are perfectly content. But they are only 5 months old and my toad continues to grow. If I can keep them in same terrarium, what would be a good size considering I'm going to be adding another small tree frog soon, which makes 3.

One more related question...Spotty the toad is a huge spazz and is always jumping around, trying to climb the walls, etc. But when he does this, he jumps or lands in the water dish with his big butt and within 20 minutes, all the water is splashed out. I've tried different things like moving in middle of terrarium, but it keeps happening. Now I'm forced to just keep "flooding" one part of the tank so there's sufficient soaking water, but then the substrate (bottom layer filled with coconut husk, which looks like dirt to me) just does it's job and absorbs the water and Hoppy tree frog isn't aquatic and is a little prissy....she doesn't like specks of dirt on her, which happens because everything's wet. Is there a way to seperate the tank into aquatic/dry without spending a whole lot of money. Next month, I'm upgrading to larger terrarium, but for now, I gotta rig this myself and cheaply. any help or advice would help greatly as these are my babies and I love them more than anything and just like my kids, I just want them to be happy, healthy and comfortable. Thanks

My goodness ! You do have a way with words !
I have not read beyond your post and the next. Good luck with all the great advice you will have .
Lynn

[Excelsior]

I have 2 herps, both 5 months old. Female Pacific tree frog and an unknown sex California Toad (I'm thinking female, but not sure). We have them in same terrarium and they haven't had any problems with each other. In fact, my toad copies the tree frog and tries unsuccessfully to climb walls but has managed to climb the vine and sleep all the way at the top. When we first brought "Spotty" (toad) home, he'd follow Hoppy everywhere and they'd soak together, completely touching and if frog would scoot over, he'd get closer. Absolutely precious! Question: should I encounter any problems with this arrangement? Spotty the toad is twice her length, but he's never acted in a threatening manner so I'm thinking it's good for them to have a buddy.

Also, when I first got Hoppy tree frog as a tadpole, then a froglet, she was in a Critter Keeper, but the largest one they have. I'd guess it's slightly smaller than a 10 gallon tank. I have sphagum peat moss for substrate, a half log for hiding, a vertical anchor for Hoppy to hang out on and a artificial vine/plant that she loves to climb. Although I'd like it bigger and know that tree frogs need vertical terrariums with climbing apparatus, they are perfectly content. But they are only 5 months old and my toad continues to grow. If I can keep them in same terrarium, what would be a good size considering I'm going to be adding another small tree frog soon, which makes 3.

One more related question...Spotty the toad is a huge spazz and is always jumping around, trying to climb the walls, etc. But when he does this, he jumps or lands in the water dish with his big butt and within 20 minutes, all the water is splashed out. I've tried different things like moving in middle of terrarium, but it keeps happening. Now I'm forced to just keep "flooding" one part of the tank so there's sufficient soaking water, but then the substrate (bottom layer filled with coconut husk, which looks like dirt to me) just does it's job and absorbs the water and Hoppy tree frog isn't aquatic and is a little prissy....she doesn't like specks of dirt on her, which happens because everything's wet. Is there a way to seperate the tank into aquatic/dry without spending a whole lot of money. Next month, I'm upgrading to larger terrarium, but for now, I gotta rig this myself and cheaply. any help or advice would help greatly as these are my babies and I love them more than anything and just like my kids, I just want them to be happy, healthy and comfortable. Thanks

I understand this is off topic, but a good way to identify your toads gender is to see if it makes any noise. If it makes a chirping noise at any time or anything like that it's a male, because females don't make any noise (except during mating season I think?). If you want to go ahead and find out put on a glove or something, pick up your toad, and firmly but gently rub different parts of his/her back. Sometimes it'll chirp sometimes it won't. If you need to, try covering it with your hand or placing something like a sheet over it before rubbing it. Then it's more likely to let out a high pitched chirp. This might sound like a mean thing to do but it's not and you aren't doing your toad any harm except maybe scaring it a bit. And I say use a glove because the oil from human skin could bother them.