Terrarium cleaning routine - White's tree frog

[rosaphile]

I just posted my intro but I already have a question I'd like to get cleared up if I could.

We're looking at getting the Exo Terra Rainforest terrarium kit for a White's tree frog. I'm planning on using the coconut husk substrate that comes with the kit, with sphagnum moss on top to help retain moisture. What I'm wondering about is cleaning schedule and methods. I've seen a lot of different and conflicting info and it's all a bit confusing. As best I can tell, the way to go is to remove poop and dead insects every day, change the water in the dish every day, and keep the humidity around 50% by spraying with distilled water as needed. Then once a month, clean the whole terrarium. Which would include throwing out the old substrate and moss, taking all the furnishings out and cleaning them, cleaning the inside of the tank, then putting fresh substrate and moss back in along with the furnishings. I've seen sources that say to use just plain hot water, and one source said to use a 3% bleach solution and rinse very well before replacing everything. I saw one source that said to use vinegar; I've also seen various cleaning products carried by the pet stores, some disinfectants and some enzyme-based natural cleaners.

I've also seen info that indicates the White's tree frog can tend to make a bit of a mess of the glass, presumably because of its waxy skin? Is there a way to keep it clean day-to-day that is safe for the frog?

Please help me figure out the right cleaning routine? Thanks!

PS. Any other advice always welcome!

[DonLisk]

Hi and welcome Lori.
Your new WTF is an aggressive eater and I would strongly recomend not using the husk or the sphagnum as a top layer.
When they dive for crickets they many times miss and what ever hits their mouth will be swallowed. Its not a fun task removing a twisted piece of sphagnum from a impacted frog and the husk is similar.

I would recommend Plantation Soil or Eco Earth coco fiber and use the sphagnum under that as your moisture retention.

As for cleaning, if your doing a live plant set up then the only real cleaning needed is spot cleaning and changing the water dish daily with declorniated water.
Spot cleaning would consist of removing visible droppings daily and cleaning the glass maybe once a week with the methods you listed in your post. The frogs need to be removed for cleaning with bleach or vinegar and can't go back in until the smell is completely gone from the cleaning products. I use a small squeegee to clean the glass every few days with distilled water and a good cleaning done once a week if needed with just a green scrubby (no soap in it) and some distilled water.

A complete change out of substrate might be called for every maybe 6 months but some vivariums can go way longer or even never changed when using a false bottom made from either the eggcrate method or using Hydroballs layered about 2 inches deep on the bottom. Above the false layer you would use screen material and then the sphagnum and and then the soil above that.
Here is a link to making a false bottom with eggcrate inexpensively and no special tools needed. The pump in the thread is not needed.
http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...se-bottom.html

The false bottom would provide soil drainage and the water from misting will evaporate or sometimes have to be drained/siphoned off.
Without the false bottom, you would have to routinely change the substrate since it will become saturated and smell or mold.

Hope some of this helps.

[rosaphile]

Oh wow, thanks - I knew that White's are aggressive eaters but I was under the impression the coco husk/sphagnum were safe! I will definitely go with the eco earth type substrate instead. It definitely sounds like the false bottom setup would be the way to go, with that.

How hard is it to do the siphoning if necessary? With the egg crate bottom, is that the purpose served by the pump? And what kind of pump is that? Sorry, I'm not very "handy." It's sounding to me like it might be easier and cheaper to use the Hydroballs, but does that make for harder long-term maintenance? Does the setup ever need to be completely removed and cleaned/replaced with the Hydroballs or egg crate false bottom?

It also just occurred to me to wonder if, with the pump and egg crate setup, the pump could be set to continuously recirculate the water from the bottom over a sort of waterfall feature back into the substrate? But would that make the substrate too soggy where the water ran back down? Not sure if I'm making sense.... :/

Thanks again for the info! I know I'm full of questions but I am really excited about making a great setup!

[DonLisk]

Your definitely making sense but with the WTFs I don't think I would do a waterfall since they dirty the water pretty fast. Best bet and easiest is to just have a little excess screen in one corner that you can grab and lift slightly to slide a small hose down in. The have a bucket lower that the tank and siphon the excess off. The pump in that build is for pumping off excess water and it is a basic zoomed small pump but you need to make the suction section flat at the bottom and not sucking from the side when set up.

If you do decide on a waterfall, it can just drop back into the substrate and soak through. Usually most of us will shy away from the pumps and waterfalls for Whites just because of the extra maintenance needed to maintain the pump system.

More questions, just ask away.

[rosaphile]

Okay, thanks, I think that all makes sense to me now. I will save the waterfall idea for my next frog.

Just a couple more questions. First - I was poking around on Amazon and found an alternative to Hydroballs called "Hydroton Clay Aggregate Grow Media": Amazon.com: Hydroton Clay Aggregate Grow Media - 10 Liter Bag - HYD310: Patio, Lawn & Garden Someone writing a review on the Hydroballs said they liked this stuff better, and it looks like about half the cost. Any reason not to go with this?

Also, how do you know when there is excess water that needs to be siphoned out? And if you put a deeper layer of hydroballs will that make siphoning necessary less often?

Finally, where do you get the leaves to place on top of the substrate? Do they actually sell those in pet stores or something? I'm guessing it's not a good idea to just go out and pick up leaves from outside....

Thanks again, really appreciate the advice!

[DonLisk]

I never used that so I couldn't comment on how well it would work.

You will see the excess water at the bottom of the tank through the hydro balls or filling under the eggcrate depending on which way you go. The deep you make the false bottom the longer you can wait between draining but you may never have to drain. My Red eyed tank never has to be siphoned off while my WTF tank needed draining once a month.
I would usually have about 1 inch of water under the eggcrate in the WTF tank.

I use Joshsfrogs.com for my leaf liter. You can boil magnolia or seagrape leaves and use them but I find it easier to have Josh mail me a bag now and then. Josh has a 5.99 dry good shipping and have stuff in only a few days after ordering.

[rosaphile]

Thanks again, Don! I think that finally answers all my questions... at least for now.

Oh, and about the Hydroton - I went to check out joshsfrogs.com, and when I clicked on "substrate" that was the first thing that popped up! So apparently there are a few folks out there using it for their frogs. They don't seem to be carrying it right now, though. But it looks like one bag ($20 on Amazon) is the perfect amount to fill an 18x18 area to a depth of just under 2 inches, so - perfect!