Metabolic Bone Disease?

[Aimee]

Hi everyone. I really hope someone can help me out...

For the past two days I've noticed one of my african dwarfies holding his hind legs in a way that looks quite unnatural. He also seems slightly lethargic, not showing much interest during feeding time.

His movements seem normal and unhindered...it's just when he's sitting still that this happens.

Diet consists primarily of frozen bloodworms with occasional brine shrimp. I try mixing commercial frog pellets in each feeding, but I've never actually seen any (I have 5 frogs total) successfuly eat any.

Could this be metabolic bone disease brought on from a lack of calcium in the diet?

Water parameters are fine: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20-40 nitrate, temp of 74-80 F

What do you guys think? He really doesn't seem very happy...

[Kurt]

Sorry, I have not a clue. They do make calcium blocks for aqautic turtles, you can tree using those. Are you sure there is a problem to begin with?

[Aimee]

The knee joints seems to be deformed/disfigured in that instead of forming a smooth angle between the femur and tibiofibula, they are kiltered up, resulting in the tibiofibula sitting directly above the femur...

It is rather strange looking and I have never seen any of the little guys do this until now (though, I must admit I am rather new to these frogs and have only had them for a few months).

Is it possible that there is no problem at all? It looks quite unnatural to me and, as I said, he also seems less interested in food.

I also forgot to mention in my first post that I occasionally throw in an algae waffer...do these harbor a good source of calcium?

Thanks for the help

[Kurt]

The knee joints seems to be deformed/disfigured in that instead of forming a smooth angle between the femur and tibiofibula, they are kiltered up, resulting in the tibiofibula sitting directly above the femur...

Sound more like rheumatoid arthritis than metabolic bone disease, but I am not a vet so I can't say for sure. I really have no clue what the problem may be.

I also forgot to mention in my first post that I occasionally throw in an algae waffer...do these harbor a good source of calcium?

Probably not. Check the package though, it should list nutritional information.

[Herpvet]

Hi everyone. I really hope someone can help me out...

For the past two days I've noticed one of my african dwarfies holding his hind legs in a way that looks quite unnatural. He also seems slightly lethargic, not showing much interest during feeding time.

His movements seem normal and unhindered...it's just when he's sitting still that this happens.

Diet consists primarily of frozen bloodworms with occasional brine shrimp. I try mixing commercial frog pellets in each feeding, but I've never actually seen any (I have 5 frogs total) successfuly eat any.

Could this be metabolic bone disease brought on from a lack of calcium in the diet?

Water parameters are fine: 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, 20-40 nitrate, temp of 74-80 F

What do you guys think? He really doesn't seem very happy...

Hello,

It certainly sounds possible that metabolic bone disease could be an issue here - mind you, I've seen animals that should have been fine show horrible deficiency and vice versa, so I never completely rule it out without tests.

I would suggest you get him to a vet for a radiograph and/or other tests, to assess the general bony density (along with one or more of the others probably, although discuss that with the vet you use). Depending on x-ray equipment getting good radiographs of such small frogs may be difficult, but it's the best way to rul out or in any bony problem.

Hope this helps,

Bruce.

[Aimee]

Thank you for the response, Bruce

I will see if I can locate a good vet this weekend.

If it does turn out to be MBD, what course of action do you suggest I take in treating him?

Also, what else do you suggest I feed to incorporate more calcium into the diet?

Thanks again.

[John]

MBD is very difficult to treat. You can supplement the diet but aside from that I don't think there's any way to "fix" deformed bones.

[Aimee]

Well that doesn't sound very promising

How would you recommend I supplement the diet? To recap, I feed them frozen bloodworms 4-5 times per week and brine shrimp or algae waffers about 2 times per week.

I am just starting my first worm farm with red wrigglers. I could try cutting these up, but have heard that many amphibians dislike the smell of chopped wrigglers.

If it turns out this little guy does, in fact, have MBD, I'd like to make sure his tankmates don't become afflicted with it as well.

[John]

I don't know how you'd supplement it aquatically :/. Is your local water hard?

[Aimee]

Yes, very. Very hard. Very alkaline.

On a happy note, he gorged himself on some bloodworms last night...

Haven't been able to locate a vet nearby that does herps so I'm still looking...apparently I live in dog/cat country.

[John]

If he's in hard water all the time, he's getting calcium from that. I doubt it's MBD.

[Tom Highum]

Hmm this might help
http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...list-vets.html

[Aimee]

Just an update...

I found a vet that treats amphibians but it turns out the tests and x-rays are going to cost me (way) more than I can afford .

I have not seen him eat in several days. Even when I drop the food right infront of his face, he shows no interest. Additionally, I have witnessed the other frogs bullying him on more than one occasion. He is becoming quite thin...

Today I separated him from his larger tankmates so that I can keep a closer eye on him. I am a little worried about regulating the temp of the smaller container (the mother tank has a heater to keep the water at 76 degrees). I have put his container next to the warm side of my gecko tank in the hopes that it will keep his water from becoming too cool at night...

I am hoping that by separating him into a smaller container without the aggression of the other frogs, he'll be comfortable enough to be coaxed into eating. If I still can't get him to eat, I am really unsure of what I should do next.

It's just so strange that the problem occured after several months without issue. I am now starting to think that perhaps his disjointed knees are the result of aggression from the other frogs.

If anyone has any suggestions on what else I can do to help him (I'm relatively sure it's a him), I would welcome your feedback.

Regards,
Aimee

[John]

Why not get one of those floating hard plastic breeding containers sold for guppies and the like? You can put that in the main aquarium and give him the temperature he needs.

[Tom Highum]

John what are you talking about? sorry i have no clue

[Aimee]

Oooh, that's a good idea...

Unfortunately the pet store is closed right now, but your suggestion got me thinking...turns out a small tuperware container can serve the same purpose too...

I filled one two-thirds up with water (its about 5"x5"x5"), set it in the tank, and with the tank lid on, the container still floats, but also stays in place.

There aren't any holes in the container so filtered water doesn't run through it (which means I'll have to do small water changes everyday), but at least this way his temperature is regulated. I also threw some plastic plant leaves in there so he won't feel so exposed.

Thanks for the great tip

[Kurt]

Go into the tropical fish section of the pet store to see them. They are used to put gravid Poeciliidids (live-bearing fish such as guppies and mollies) in when they are soon to give "birth". There are two basic types, the hard plastic, floating kind and the plastic framed mesh kind that hang on to the side of the tank.