White's Tree Frog Help Please ?

[kirby1306]

I have had my WTF for six weeks now - he is only about 2 1/2 months old in total . We have him ina 20L tank, climbing branches and vines with a water bowl and coconut husk subtrate. A humidity of 60%, the tank is heated on one side using a heat mat and all food is dusted with vitamins and calcium.
We were feeding him around 3 crickets everyday (we were told to do this as a baby and cut back as he gets older) , and he gobbled them all up - now however he's not eating them at all. I was told by another site to try and force feed him using tongs and see if he will take them, but he just uses his front limbs to push them away. He hasn't eaten anything as far as i'm aware for 8 days now and obviously there have ben less faeces.

Other the lack of appetite he is absolutely fine, he moves around his tank , he goes to his water bowl, he is an absolutely gorgeous colour - but isn't keen on the eating thing. What do I do?

Would trying him on mealworms help to bring his appetite back?

I've attached this picture so you can see his size in relation to his age. This was taken about two weeks ago and his colour has changed now , more like a jade colour (absolutely stunning to look at) - one thing I did notice was that he seemed to be shedding, but we haven't seen him do the yawning thing or anything like that so i'm not sure if there is any relevance.

Thanks for your help
Kirb x

[Azhael]

I would not try to force feed it, it´s an extremely stressful and potentially dangerous process.
Mealworms are hard to digest and not very nutritious at all, i wouldn´t feed it to it. However i think that it´s lack of appetite might come from being fed only crickets, so try to vary its diet. Earthworms and waxworms should atract its attention nicely.

I don´t know if it´s just me but are its eyes and mouth ok? I kind of see something not entirely ok there....

[kirby1306]

Hi thanks for your response. The yes aren't like that at all, just looks that way in the picture, think he may have been asleep =D
Ok thanks for the info about the meal worms, I was advised on another site to tempt him back using them but if they hold no nutritious value then I guess there would be no point !
I suppose I could vary his diet now, I was a little cautious because of his age.

Anyone else have any input ??
Thanks Kirb x

[Kurt]

Sleeping frogs don't look like that! Have a listen to his hearing, put him up to your ear and have a listen. Is there crackling or is the breathing normal? Just to make sure he isn't holding his breath, wet your ear so you will feel his breath in case you can't hear it.

You said he was shedding, but you saw no yawning. Does skin slough off in your hand when you handle him and if so, its it flakes or longer pieces that kind of resemble runny eggs?

Is he still climbing or does he stay on the bottom of the enclosure?

If the answer is yes to any of these questions, then you need to see a vet as soon as possible.

[kirby1306]

Hi Kurt ,
Well he was asleep when I took him out of his tank to take the picture, that's why I said I assume his eyes looked that way because he had literally just opened them. Also his eyes don't look like that now ... they look very fresh and bright. I am intending to take another picture for you gusy so you can see what he looks like now , but am worried about disturbing him too much , I don't really want to stress him out. But no , I don't think there is a problem with his eyes, just the picture I think!

As for the breathingit's absolutely fine and normal for him. You can clearly see him breathing too with no crackling noises - so that one is ruled out

The shedding, I assumed he was shedding because he had some skin on his back that seemed to be peeling (kind of like when we have peeling lips) - there is no resemblance of runny egss and it doesn't come off in my hand etc. The skin isn't there now though so I don't know if it was shedding. Just to say at this point too that there are no open wounds, cuts, grazes , lesions at all on him.

He is climbing yes. He is actually very active =D Which pleases me . I assume his activity would slow down but it hasn't . He loves climbing in and around his branches and vines , and only goes to the bottom of his tank to access his water bowl.

Like I said , he seems perfectly normal other than his lack of appetite. One poster has mentioned feeding him more of a variety of food now. I didn't do this initially because of his age , but as it has been reccomended , I will give it ago to entice his appetitie back.

Please let me know what you think, from my responses.

Many thanks for your help thus far
Kirb x

[Kurt]

Well, I guess we have ruled out respiratory infection, chytridiomycosis, and hypocalcemia. So try another food source and se what happens. Also what is the current temperatures he is kept at?

[kirby1306]

Phew! It's nice to know that those kinds of condition have been ruled out.

Temps are at the moment -
Daytime : between 28 and 30 degrees
Nightime: between 22 and 24 degrees

My humifity is a little high at the moment I think, but I am working on bringing it down - it's at 60% at the moment but someone suggested it should be as low as 40%

Kirb x

[Bellerophon]

Kirb, can we get a pic of the tank? Most of the time problems with amphibians can be directly attributed to the environment they're housed in. Its best to rule out any husbandry problems before trying to dive in and play veterinarian with the animal.

[kirby1306]

Hey Bellerophon,

I'll try and take a picture of the tank later and upload it.

Thanks for everyones help so far
Kirb xx

[maneeta]

I've had a similar problem with one of my frogs. When I got him he ate 3 crickets in about 3 weeks, the next 3 weeks he didn't eat at all and I was more than worried. The guy that owns the shop I've got them from (he knows a lot about them) told me that as long as she seems healthy and is not losing weight, it's okay I should not worry too much. Amphibians seem to be able to live without food for months. Mine is eating now as much as the others do.

As the others said I would not force him, it seems that he is able to eat and he just doesn't want to... Maybe he feels a little bit stressed, so I wouldn't take him out for a while (I did it like that with mine).

Another question: You wrote you kept them in a 20 liter tank, but I really really hope you meant 20 gallons..? (If it really is 20 liters that would be the same as keeping a child in a closet and I could imagine why he's not eating.)

[kirby1306]

Haha yes you are right lol , 20 gallons !! I didn't even notice my mistake on my original post - thanks for pointing it out though , i'd hate for people to think we were keeping our lovely Fargo in such a small enclosed space.

Anyway , thanks for your post - that has put my mind at ease somewhat knowing that you have had a similar experience and that he began eating again. Fargo has only not eaten for just over a week, and I actually think he has had ONE cricket - so it's not that he can't eat altogether.

I think from this site and from another forum, people have asked me questions and have rules out any illnesses etc , and have come to the conclusion that he was eating a lot before and he just simply isn't hungry at the moment. However to vary the diet and he may be interested lol. so that's what I'm going to do.

I just thought i'd add this picture of fargo in his tank among the vines and branches. You can see the gorgeous colour I was talking about and also that his eyes are not like the first pictures I posted, as some people seemed concerned about that ! I took this picture literally just as he hopped from one big branch to another . I do love him

[maneeta]

*phew* ^^

I hope he'll eat again soon, so you don't have to worry no more. Although most people say white's are ALWAYS hungry and if they don't eat they must be sick, it seems that sometimes they really aren't like that. I hope it's the same with your little (very pretty) one...

Another thing is that it means a lot of stress for the little guy if you take him to the vet that's why I didn't take mine there (of course only because she really seemed to be in good health) and it was the best choice since the vet couldn't have done anything and maybe she hadn't eating for a longer time because of that stress.

If you want to be sure he doesn't lose weight I recommend you to scale him.

keeping fingers crossed

ps: Don't worry about the humidity, I think around 50 to 60% daytime a little more at night is great. The temperature is okay as well, it might be slightly lower during night (around 20°C or a bit lower). The shop owner told me the reason for the appetite loss could be if it's too hot for them... (In my case that wasn't the "problem" but you never know.)

[kirby1306]

Hey Maneeter

Thanks for saying Fargo is pretty - he is gorgeous , and such a fabulous colour (this is another one of the reasons that I don't believe he is ill to be honest!)

Your information has really put me at ease, I agree though that many people have said that they will ALWAYS eat but since asking about this on the two forums I use, many people have popped up and said that they have had similar problems, and it's simply because they just weren't hungry!

As you can see he looks pretty healthy - he is only around 2 1/2 3 months old (can't be too exact =()
but has been putting his weight on fairly well. I will weigh him I think, but maybe not this week, I might leave him till next week and see what his eating is like, if its still off I'll weight him. I just don't want to stress him out if it is absolutely necessary !!

I'm so glad I have access to all you knowledgable guys who are actually willing to help .
thanks !!

Kirb xx

[Kurt]

Before we state the reason he's not eating is because not hungry, lets have a look in his mouth. Make sure that everything is normal and healthy. A fecal float should also be done to be on the safe side, make sure its not parasites that diminishing his appetite.

[kirby1306]

Could you tell me what to look for , or point me to a resource that can give me this information?

Kirb x

[Kurt]

The mouth should have a healthy pink look to it. No sores or mucus or puss. A fecal float will have to be done by a vet. The fecal sample should be no more than twenty four hours old to test properly.

[kirby1306]

Mouth is all fine and dandy Just had a look at him and he looks pretty good.

I've hunted down a vet that has experience of amphibians so will be sorting that out first thing in the morning !

How would you suggest he could have got parasites??

Kirb xx

[Kurt]

His size suggests that he may be wild caught, which means it is very likely that he has gastrointestinal parasites. Under stress or illness these parasites can expand in population thus further making the animal weaker and possibly contributing to its death.

[kirby1306]

We had him from a breeder at a reptile fair in Doncaster. The breeder said that he was bred at home just around the corner from the where the show was. So I don't think that he was wold caught. But obviously I cannot be absolutely certain, I just have to take the guys word for it.

Is he too big or too small or what ??

[Kurt]

I thought he looked a little big to be captive bred. It couldn't hurt to get a fecal done, just to be on the safe side. Captive bred animals are also know to pick up parasites, usually when sold in stores that carry both WC and CB animals.