How Long Should You Wait?

[AlexanderSalamander]

I was toying around with vivarium ideas and I was wondering how long I would need to let my plants establish before introducing the frogs/other herps?
vivA

[Bombina Bob]

I usually wait a week before introducing any frogs into my vivariums. Some may wait a month or go ahead and put them in the same day the viv is finished.

[AlexanderSalamander]

Do you, or anyone reading this, know the pros and cons of the different time frames

[LilyPad]

If you wait longer, plants are more established. Plus, if a plant doesn't work and you need to move it around, you aren't disturbing your frogs. I have had one of my vivs planted for just over a month. Took a couple of plants out and put a couple of new ones in. Around week 4, it cycled through some mold and I had to take my moss out until that cleared up. I got my new tree frogs yesterday that I plan to put in there, but they will stay in a quarantine tank for 30 days now. It gives me time to finish any tweaking I need done on the tank. Also, if you have a water feature, it's good to let it run a couple of weeks and make sure it's going to work correctly so that you aren't stressing your frogs moving them in and out.

That being said, I redid my grey tree frog tank last weekend and moved them back in as soon as I finished setting it up. Their plants are hardy plants, and the pond area isn't anything exciting, no waterfall or anything so it shouldn't have any issues.

[deranged chipmunk]

I allow my tanks to grow in for a minimum of 4 weeks, sometimes longer. Like Amy said, it gives you time to tweak the tank out and it also allows the bio filter to cycle, just like an aquarium. The other benefit to giving the added time is it allows the microfauna to establish themselves and start to multiply before you put some killers in the tank lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AlexanderSalamander]

The feedback here is great! So if I want the plants to have more or a chance to take hold before introducing the inhabitants I should wait about a month, does the size/age of the plants matter

[deranged chipmunk]

The size and age really depend on the plant. But just as general info, mature plants will acclimate faster than juveniles, obviously, and clippings will need to root first before they can fully establish themselves. But all plants will need to acclimate to their new environment, just like the frogs will. For instance, when going from the relative humidity of indoors to say, a dart frog tank with 90%+ humidity, plants like ferns tend to die off and then regrow. But like I said, a lot depends on the species.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[flybyferns]

Plus... you want the 'bad stuff' to grow out of the plants ! ie pesticides, fertilizers, leaf polishers.
Unless of course, you have done that already.

I prep the plant 1st: dump the soil it came in/ rinse in thoroughly (more often than not give it a bleach dip/ leaves, roots and all/then soak the entire plant in de-chlorinated water ) This is especially important for the plants from the big box stores. Re-pot it in a clean container to grow out .

I agree---- about a month or so.

PS
All frogs need a QT period:
In the mean time ............you can still get your frogs......they can start their QT period while your enclosures is getting comfortable. And you can get to know your frogs while they are in the QT environment ---> be sure they are well and eating.

This is especially true for froglets ; and 100 % necessary for all PDFs. You want to witness them eating their food.

for example:
- you may want to train a tree frog to bowl feed in QT
or
-you want to make sure a young dart frog has transitioned ,well, from sprintails to fruit flies--- witnessed ---while in QT

http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...uarantine.html

What species are you planing to house?

[Mentat]

Agree with others in the month settling down period for plants; but would like to make a note. If your plants come from a source that used pesticides or strong fertilizers in them; transplant upon purchase to new soil and grow out in for a couple weeks to leach out the chemicals before rinsing out all soil again and transplanting to vivarium. Good luck !

[LilyPad]

I forgot to throw in the issue of pesticides and fertilizers. When I moved my grey tree frogs immediately back into their viv after redoing it, none of the plants were *new.* They were either all old plants from the viv or plants moved from other (unoccupied) vivs, so no risk of pesticides or fertilizers there.

[AlexanderSalamander]

Great feedback, I'm planning on WTF's about four of em'

[deranged chipmunk]

On the note of fertilizers and pesticides. I don't really concern myself with these. Fertilizers that are already in the plant are already broken down, so they aren't an issue. Rinsing the soil off the roots will take care of any additional fertilizers, although realistically, by the time you purchase the plant, the fertilizer it was last given from the grower, will have broken down.

As far as pesticides go, the pesticides we encounter with the plants we use, are going to be contact type pesticides. Those are sprayed onto the foliage and are easily rinsed off. These do not actually get absorbed into the plant. The roots absorb stuff into the plant, not the leaves. Granted, if they could have gotten the fertilizer spray down to about a microbe (impossible), then "maybe" they can be absorbed. The pesticides you need to be concerned about are systemic pesticides. These are pesticides that are treated to seeds and soil so that the plant does absorb them, making the plants toxic to insects. These pesticides are, for the most part, limited to agricultural use only. If you have eaten "non organic" produce in the past week or so, then you probably have more systemic pesticides in your body than the whole collective of plants in your Viv. There's a pretty scary thought huh?

Wow, it just dawned on me that I should have just posted that to the plant section lol


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AppleWoo]

This is all great info!!!

[AlexanderSalamander]

Yeah, really helpful, so I could just purchase my plants at home depot (or another store with a gardening center) without too much worry about my frogs?

[deranged chipmunk]

Yes, but it is imperative that you wash them thoroughly under running, lukewarm water to remove any plant shine or pesticide residue.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AlexanderSalamander]

Ok that's good, could anyone give me some advice about plants for WTF's that can vine other than the standard pothos and philodendron?

[deranged chipmunk]

As far as plants you can possibly find locally? Ficus pumila (creeping fig), ficus 'lance leaf', ficus 'panama', ficus pumilia var quercifolia, some Peperomia species will climb, so will some dischidia species. Some Cissus species also climb.

As far as online ordering, there are a ridiculous amount of plants you can obtain that would climb.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AlexanderSalamander]

Thanks a lot for the list, I wish I had your wealth of knowledge. When purchased as adults, can these ficus' support the full weight of a whites tree frog?

[deranged chipmunk]

You'll get it eventually. no, none if those are large enough to support a white's. The few vining plants that could support the weight of an adult white's are going to be very large., like the standard pothos or philodendron or one of the larger cissus species, like c. Discolor.


Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela

[AlexanderSalamander]

Philodendrons are definitely gonna be in my viv (if I make it) and that c. Discolor is certainly beautiful, my tank is 150g could one of those fit in there, with proper trimming, of course.