Phoenix worms a no-no?

[kueluck]

I've heard great things about phoenix worms and thought I would give it a try for the toads and frogs. I headed to the reptile show and picked up appropriate size. I can't get the frogs to take them but of course the toads will, they eat just about anything. Then I noticed that they are “passing” the worms whole and some are still alive!! I hate to just flush them, so should I let them turn to flies? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

[JeffX]

I've never heard that before. That doesn't sound right.

[mdtalley22]

Are your frogs digesting any food right now? I know my bearded doesn't digest well if his temperatures drop...but Phoenix worms should be alright, and with no shell (at least not like super or meal worms) it should digest better than most other inscets.

[kueluck]

I emailed Josh and he sent me the suppliers site, I want to know if others have had this issue. They seem healthy, just poopin' whole worms and 2 were still alive. Don't know who to feel sorry for, the toad or the worm. I'll just have to squish the worms, then feed them to the toads, they will eat any thing hanging from the tweezers.

[kueluck]

They digest every thing else, crickets, flies, moths, slugs,wax worms, just the phoenix are coming out whole.

[BG]

I'm glad i never fed them.

[wesleybrouwer]

That is strange, i do feed them to my bigger frogs and they digest them properly.
At first they seem to spit it out since they don't know the taste,
but they do that with other feeders now and then as well.
Pooping live worms seems impossible to me.
The fluids inside the frog will kill the worms if you ask me.
Are you sure they past the stomach of you're frogs?

[John]

It's quite possible that the toads are not able to break down the exoskeleton of the phoenix worm so it's not digesting it. Not a problem, just doesn't make them a useful food.

[kueluck]

My frogs won't eat them, just the toads, and here is the Insect Science Resource LLC response: We have heard of this sometimes happening with frogs. Breeders tell us it can happen when Phoenix Worms are not chewed before they're swallowed. The digestive system of a frog is short so if the worm cuticle is not pierced by chewing, digestive juices may not have time to do their job properly. Hobbyists and breeders tell us they often "pin" prey before feeding to small frogs and this assists digestion. To pin, use a needle to poke a hole or two in the worms before feeding. This will ensure better digestion.

I had no problems with meal worms, but the impaction thing scared me away from those, they like wax worms but because they are so high in fat I can't feed them often, and I tried to do the earthworm thing and cut them up. Well that was the most discussing thing I've EVER done. Since I live in NC there are still lots of moths and flies available, I just want to give them variety during the winter months.