Giant Waxy Monkey Frog help.

[Diver]

Well sadly the cctv died so it's back in the dark again regarding activity (new one on the way). They're both alive and well although they still alternate between looking emaciated and in the case of this one who's been in or around the upper water bowl for 5 days now, er not:





Found a poop in that water bowl this morning and another one here:



Guess they must be eating then!

[Diver]

Well I wasn't sure if the excessive plumpness of the frog in the photo above was a good thing or a bad thing. For many days now he's been sitting in or around one of the water bowls, usually in the water. Went in this morning and he was awake and moving on the edge of the bowl. Two hours later he's face down in it dead







I thought we'd turned a corner with these guys, evidence of poop and therefore eating as well as hydrating themselves, thought they were going to be fine despite the complete lack of activity. Back to feeling at a complete loss again now.

Any thoughts at all anyone?

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

To me, it feels like a parasite infection, but I could be wrong

[Diver]

Well it hasn't been eliminated I guess so next thing to look at. The first poops I found recently and actually took it as a sign that things were well so didn't them examined, I'll wait for another from the last remaining frog and get it checked out. Thanks!

[Diver]

Just checked on the last remaining frog and saw this:







Not sure if it's coming from the cloaca or through the skin, but this is the first obvious sign that something is definitely wrong. Anyone seen this before? Any clue as to what might be killing these guys?

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Still thinking parasite, I would find an exotic vet and get its stool checked for parasites

[Diver]

Yeah, poop has always been like gold dust the whole time I've had them. Saw my first two about a week ago, kicking myself for not getting them checked out but the frogs seemed perfectly healthy by then. Damn it! I'll give the vet a call in the morning and see what he makes of it.

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Have you called the vet yet?

[Diver]

Yep, spoke to him today and showed him the photos. He's thinking viral, bacterial or maybe parasitical. If it's viral nothing can be done of course, so we've started with Baytril in case it's bacterial. Need fecal matter to ascertain if it's parasites, but can worm anyway just in case so will do that. He's thinking parasites are the least likely however.
Unfortunately due the history and where they came from, Ranavirus is most likely and would explain everything else in this thread. Fortunately as they were wild caught they were kept in a different room to the rest of my collection which is quite extensive and would have been a complete disaster if infected.
I'll update with developments.

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

That's horrible! I hope it can recover! Dang exporters!

[Diver]

I hope so too, it's pretty upsetting, they're such a lovely frog and they get treated badly by the natives in their home country too

I had hopes of getting them breeding over here (and I suppose all of our exotics were exported originally), but to have captive bred available would be terrific. The way things are in the wild that might be the only way that certain species will continue at all. I've started construction on a 8ft x 8ft x8ft with full environmental controls and I'm heading back over to Hamm next month with the hope of obtaining more for the project but I'm just not sure about the whole thing now.

[monster]

Sorry to hear about all the problems and deaths of your frogs. Don't let it steer you away, this will be a big learning lesson for the future. I know your vet said he didn't think parasites but don't rule it out unless he says he knows for sure. From my understanding all wild caught frogs will carry some kind of parasite or bacteria that would do nothing to them in wild or take a lot longer to kill them or make them very sick. It is when we put them into a smaller controlled environment that these parasites and stuff just explode and take over the poor frog. Again i could be wrong but im pretty sure im correct and if not totally it is something down those lines. So if you choose to get a couple more of these i would just insinuate that they had these and treat them for the basics just to be safe and put your own mind at ease. Again so sorry to hear about your loses and continuing problems, hope this guy can pull through for you.

[Diver]

Thanks Cory, I do feel now that I've come this far it would be a shame to give up on the idea of trying to breed bicolor. I suppose the problem with treating for parasites is it appears to quite specific. He said he would need a positive identification in order to prescribe the correct drug and for that fecal matter is required. These guys didn't seem to produce any until about a week ago!
I doubt I'll give up even if I lose this one, as you say it's a learning curve but it's also a bit of a gamble. Coming from the wild they can apparently have rananvirus lying dormant and much in the same way as you say about parasites, not harmful until the immune system is affected by stress. The stress of being captured and then shipped must be considerable and guess it's the moral issue that I'm wrestling with. If I were looking at them just to keep as pets then I wouldn't want to encourage the trade, but as I'm looking at a no-expense spared breeding project I feel I can justify it.
Anyway, there might not be any available at Hamm this time so I guess I can leave it up to fate!

[monster]

Ya he would need a positive fecal to determine which parasites to treat for. I get a fecal done on the first poop I see for all my frogs even if they are captive bred just to put my mind at ease. And yes stress is just brutal for frogs, I read a couple times that stress is one of the leading causes of death in captive reptiles and amphibians, it lowers there poor immune system so much. Again I hope this guy/girl makes it for ya, they are such an amazing species of frog.

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

Do you have any updates on the last one?

[Diver]

Hi Xavier, nothing major or conclusive unfortunately. The prescription is 0.5ml Baytril in 100ml water as a bath for 6-8 hours a day for 10 days. The first day the frog did just sit in the bath for 8 hours asleep but I've been lucky to get him to sit in it for half an hour every time I've tried since. Could be a sign he's feeling better of course, he's certainly strong enough to make bathing or not his decision! The rest of the time he just sits in the same spot never moving night or day the same as they all have done ever since I've had them. There's no sign of any poop to take for a fecal exam either.
On the plus side his physical appearance seems normal (no bloody secretion as in the photos). Still all a bit of a mystery I think!

[Diver]

Had a win with this guy finally. Night before last I was giving him his Baytril bath and he started shedding behaviour so while his mouth was open I got the Panancur into him along with three locusts and four crickets all dusted with calcium and vitamins. He ate the whole lot down and rewarded me with an excellent fresh poo this morning which I can get to the vet tomorrow for an exam. He also seems stronger and actually jumped to get away from me last night for the first time ever

[monster]

Hi Diver, that's awesome to hear hes getting better. I have been watching the thread to see if this last guy was going to make it for ya after the lose of the others and this is great news.

[Diver]

I got the results of the fecal exam back and there's no parasites. I was actually hoping there would be so that a treatable issue had been been found but alas, no. It did turn up malamoeba though - a parasite of the livefood. While these are not harmful to the frogs as such, they do cause the feeders to be less nutritious as it affects their ability to absorb food. Apparently this is not uncommon in shop bought livefood though so therefore not the problem I'm looking for.
I'm going to have a further talk with the vet tomorrow to see if there are any other tests we can perform.
The frog remains in an apparently healthy state bar the continued dormancy.

[Cliygh and Mia 2]

The feeder problem is treatable, just breed your own feeder, buy a roach, cricket, grasshopper, or other feeder insect colony, and breed them to have your own healthy stock