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Thread: One size fits all?

  1. #1
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    Default One size fits all?

    I've been getting ready to get into darts or mantellas, but still can't make up my mind on what I want. Now as much of a "good" problem this is, it also carries some setbacks. For example, I want to build the best vivarium I can within my budget and abilities. My number one priority is frog health and comfort. I want to build my vivarium to suit my chosen frog, size, height, plants and so on. I've learned that I can't do that until I decide on a frog.

    I'm now thinking that it may be easier to find a "one size fits all" vivarium, then customize it to the frogs. Instead of building/buying a taller tank for an arboreal frog, or wider for terrestrial frogs, I'm looking for that happy medium.

    To make it easier, let's say it will be for 4 to 6 frogs, probably a type of d.tincs, or any Mantella. And let's say that I have the following options for enclosures, 20 gallon tall, 29 gallon, 36 gallon bow front, exo terra/ zoo Med 18x18x18, or 18wX18dX24h

    Will any of these be a good one size fits all?

    Any better suggestions?


    Also, to keep my costs down, I'm partial to regular aquariums, but not limited to them.

    Thanks for any help with this.

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  3. #2
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    Hello,
    You will still want to narrow down exactly what you will be housing.
    Both of those species need more floor space ...........ie will not climb.
    The tincs should housed in pairs - not a group

    If you want a group of 4 or 5 ....an exo , for example 18.24wide.18H would be suitable for:
    -D leucomelas (would love a 24H ... they will take advantage of a taller enclosure but not absolutely necessary)
    -D auratus
    -Mantella
    -P terrbilis ( for 4 not 5) as these frogs are larger and need additional 'open' floor space

    -a pair of tincs can go into an 18 cube or its equivalent

    You can get an 18 cube exo terra on amazon for about $100 plus tax and free shipping

    Hope this helps
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    From experience you will want to only put 4 Tincs in a 24wx18dx(whatever hieght). If you want to have more then 4 (up to 6) go with a 36 wide. A 40g breeder tank makes an excellent d tinc tank and can easily house 4 or more.

    Mantellas are the same as tincs, will spend the vast majority of their time on the ground so the same foot prints apply.


    The types of frogs you are looking at a 40b sounds right up your ally. Wait until Petco has their $1 a gallon sale and you can pick the tank up for an easy $40. This will give you more money to spend on the inside of the tank. Other than the frogs the plants will be the most expensive part of the tank. For the lid of the 40b it is best to just get the standard glass aquarium top and not try to reinvent the wheel. I may or may not have spent $100s of $$$ on the reinventing of the wheel and ended up getting the standard top lol

    I recently built a viv in a 55g aquarium and could see 5 or 6 tinc living in it comfortable. You get a good 20" height with 48" across, but it is only 12" deep.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    Another thing to think about is if the frogs being active and visible in the tank are important to you. Most Mantella will be shy and stay out of site more often than not. Tinc tend to be more active and bold.
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Blue Jeans' (2014 Nicaragua Import)
    1.1.0 - Oophaga Pumilio 'Chirique Grande' F1
    1.1.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Citronella'
    1.2.0 - D. Tinctorius 'Azureus'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'Sipaliwini'
    0.0.2 - D. Tinctorius 'New River'
    0.0.4 - D. Tinctorius 'Leucomelas'
    0.0.4 - Terribilis 'Mint'
    1.1.0 - R. Ventrimaculatus 'French Guiana'

    Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/hashtagfrogs
    Youtube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCgC...sEZiZQoT8sOuuw

  6. #5
    Super Moderator flybyferns's Avatar
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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    Abran,
    Wondering which species you decided to get ?
    Keep us posted
    Current Collection
    Dendrobates leucomelas - standard morph
    Dendrobates auratus “Costa Rican Green Black"
    Dendrobates auratus "Pena Blanca"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “New River”
    Dendrobates tinctorius "Green Sipaliwini"
    Dendrobates tinctorius “Powder Blue"
    Dendrobates tinctorius "French Guiana Dwarf Cobalt"

    Phyllobates terribilis “Mint”
    Phyllobates terribilis "Orange"
    Phyllobates bicolor "Uraba"

    Oophaga pumilio "Black Jeans"
    Oophaga pumilio "Isla Popa"
    Oophaga pumilio "Bastimentos"
    Oophaga pumilio “Mimbitimbi”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Colubre"
    Oophaga pumilio "Red Frog Beach”
    Oophaga pumilio "Rio Branco"
    Oophaga pumilio “Valle del Rey”
    Oophaga pumilio "BriBri"
    Oophaga pumilio "El Dorado"
    Oophaga pumilio "Cristobal"
    Oophaga pumilio "Rambala"

    Oophaga “Vicentei” (blue)

    Oophaga sylvatica "Paru"
    Oophaga sylvatica "Pata Blanca"
    Oophaga histrionica “Redhead”
    Oophaga histrionica "Blue"
    Oophaga lehmanni "Red"
    Oophaga histrionica "Tado"

    Ranitomeya variabilis "Southern"
    Ranitomeya imitator "Varadero"
    Ranitomeya sirensis "Lower Ucayali"
    Ranitomeya vanzolinii

    http://www.fernsfrogs.com
    https://www.facebook.com/ferns.frogs

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  8. #6
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the help everyone! I'll keep all of your advice in mind while I shop around.

    Although I still haven't decided on a frog species, I do know that it will only house a pair, maybe three frogs max. I'm leaning towards some type of tinc, mostly due to availability and a somewhat local breeder I know. The mantellas are still high up on the list, but finding non-wild caught frogs is difficult.

    I'm in no hurry to get it built and frogs bought. I do have a 10 gallon built and ready to go as a temporary home in case I come across a deal I just can pass up. Its a "practice tank" that I'm basically using as a greenhouse right now, but can easily house a pair of froglets for a little bit. Like I mentioned before, I'm in no rush. I'll keep everyone posted as things develop.

  9. #7

    Default One size fits all?

    Oh just grow a pair and pick a species already!! Lol seriously though, a lot will depend on how you build your tank, especially for mantella. Paul's M. betsileo were shy and secretive, mine were bold and always out in the open. My M. Baroni were a mix. I believe that a lot depends on the planting and design of the tank.

    Personally, I have a pretty good mix of frogs now, and my favorites are my tincs and my Terribillis, but the leucs are fighting hard for that top spot. All of them are bold, and visible And even if they are a terrestrial frog, it doesn't mean you can't build them a talk tank and fill it with plants. Of course they prefer a lot of floor space, but in a taller tank, that gives you the floor for them and the walls for you. Epiphytes, ferns, orchids growing on the walls with no fears of frogs trampling them the world is your oyster, you just gotta make your own pearl


    Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  10. #8

    Default One size fits all?

    I also want to add. You mentioned having a local breeder. If you can convince him to sell you tadpoles, that would give you a lot more time to build. But it's more than that. I was very fortunate to have Lynn gift me my mint tads (and my variabillis tads), and i'll tell you what, raising those tads and watching them grow has been the most rewarding experience I have had in this hobby. I mean, a lot of dart keepers raise tads to sell, but to raise the ones you will look at everyday and have that connection to, it is very cool, to say the least.


    Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  11. #9
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    Bill.....I can't grow a pair, but I think I can sneak my old ones out of my wife's purse! LOL

    The stars have aligned and I happened to find another local breeder, so we'll see where that leads me.

    I hear you on raising them from tads. Both my PCF's and bullfrog were tadpoles, and watching them grow has been very rewarding for me.

    So rewarding that its driven me insane enough to join this cult....sorry, I mean this forum

  12. #10

    Default One size fits all?

    Hahaha! I like Abran! Can we keep him? Lol


    Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  13. #11
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    There's a fine line between "keep" and "stuck with" and I'll tiptoe that line for all its worth.

    So be careful what you ask for....

  14. #12
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    On a more serious note. I've been in contact with a new breeder and he has ranitomeya imitator Varadero, leuc tadpoles, and some others he's trying to breed currently.

    To be honest, thumbnails have always been at the top of my list, but I've been apprehensive because I've heard they're not a good frog for a beginner. Now this guy has them fifteen minutes away?

    Are thumbnails really that difficult?

    What if I buy a dart frog poster with all of the species including mantellas, close my eyes, and play "pin the tail on the frog"?

    Or I can take the poster, lay it on the floor and let my PCF's jump and whichever frogs they land on are my two choices?

    Or like Bill said "just grow a pair, and pick a frog"

  15. #13

    Default One size fits all?

    Looking over your list of tanks to use, I, personally, would go with the 36 bow with a trio or quarter of leucs. It would be stunning!! The tank sizes you listed would all be too big for thumbs IMHO. They aren't necessarily hard to keep. They are just so tiny, you may never see them in a big tank. And they are serious escape artists, I found out the hard way


    Education is the most powerful weapon we can use to change the world ~ Nelson Mandela
    1.0.0 Oophaga Pumilio 'Black Jeans'
    0.0.10 Phyllobates Vittatus
    0.0.3 Phyllobates Terribilis 'Mint'
    0.0.3 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Patricia'
    0.0.5 Dendrobates Leucomelas
    0.0.2 Dendrobates Tinctorius 'Powder Blue'
    0.0.2 Ranitomeya Variabilis 'southern'
    0.0.3 Epipedobates Anthonyi 'zarayunga'
    1.2.0 Phyllobates bicolor
    0.0.3 Dendrobates tinctorius 'azureus'
    0.0.1 Avicularia Avicularia
    0.0.1 Gramastola porteri
    0.2.0 Canines
    1.0.0 Tabby/Maine Coon Mix
    2.1.0 Genetics Experiments
    0.1.0 Bed Bully

  16. #14
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    Quote Originally Posted by flybyferns View Post
    Abran,
    Wondering which species you decided to get ?
    Keep us posted
    Alrighty then. After careful consideration, many sleepless nights, a few beers, and many, many posts with questions asked.

    I'm proud to announce that the decision has been made*

    My frog of choice will be a pair of....drum roll please........ R. Imitator "Varadero"**

    They shall be housed in either a 10 vert conversion. 20 vert conversion, or 12x12x18 Exo/Zoo Med tanks.(opinions on size welcomed)

    Thumbnails have always been at the top of my list, but was always apprehensive due to inexperience. After going through my list, I just kept coming back to these guys. With all of the advice I've received here(thanks to you all) I feel that I can care for these frogs.

    Thanks again,
    Abran

  17. #15
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    I forgot to mention in the above post. I would like to start with a pair, but possibly add 1 or 2 more. That said, what would be the best tank size for me from the tanks listed above?

  18. #16

    Default Re: One size fits all?

    I would suggest you get an 18x18x24, at least. The main reason is that extra height is really nice in almost all situations because it gives you more flexibility with plants. 18 inch or smaller vivariums just really restrict you to very short plants. I have seen people with 3 tinctorius in 18x18 foot print vivariums and an 18x18x24 will also house a group of thumbnails. That said going with a 24x18x24 would be even better.

  19. #17
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    Quote Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post
    I would suggest you get an 18x18x24, at least. The main reason is that extra height is really nice in almost all situations because it gives you more flexibility with plants. 18 inch or smaller vivariums just really restrict you to very short plants. I have seen people with 3 tinctorius in 18x18 foot print vivariums and an 18x18x24 will also house a group of thumbnails. That said going with a 24x18x24 would be even better.
    I have a 29 gallon with the front broken out. I've tossed around the idea of getting another during the PETCO sale. Then taking the front off and attaching it on top some how. This would give me something like a 30lx18wx24h footprint.

    I've also thought about Frankensteining two 20 gallon longs into a 24x16 cube

  20. #18
    100+ Post Member AbranV's Avatar
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    Default Re: One size fits all?

    Quote Originally Posted by PubFiction View Post
    I would suggest you get an 18x18x24, at least. The main reason is that extra height is really nice in almost all situations because it gives you more flexibility with plants. 18 inch or smaller vivariums just really restrict you to very short plants. I have seen people with 3 tinctorius in 18x18 foot print vivariums and an 18x18x24 will also house a group of thumbnails. That said going with a 24x18x24 would be even better.
    I have a 29 gallon with the front broken out. I've tossed around the idea of getting another during the PETCO sale. Then taking the front off and attaching it on top some how. This would give me something like a 30lx18wx24h footprint.

    I've also thought about Frankensteining two 20 gallon tanks into a 24x16 cube

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