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Thread: Swollen back leg!!

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    Default Swollen back leg!!

    Good evening everyone. So I was digging up my pacman tonight for her bath and noticed her back leg was pretty swollen. I also noticed she is kinda pink underneath her back legs so now im worried about redleg. I have never really looked underneath her so I don't know if it is normal. I have tried to attach some pictures but not sure if it is going to work. It worked, im editing my post. L.O.L The temperature is 83 on the warm and 79 on the cold during the day and 80 on the warm and 76 on the cold at night. My humidity is always around the 70to80 mark. My tank is a 20 gl tall. I don't use any lights only uth on the side. Oh and it is the left back leg, it is kinda her whole leftside. Sorry the pictures aren't the greatest they are from my phone.
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    Last edited by monster; December 8th, 2014 at 10:16 PM. Reason: to add pictures

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    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Here is my trouble in the enclosure answers. She is in a 20 gallon long tank, and it just him. Temp is 83on the warm and 79 on the cold during the day, 80 on the warm and 76 on the cold at night. Humidity is always inbetween 70 and 80, I try to keep it closer to 80 range. She is on cocofibre its about 4in deep in the front and about 5 to 6 in the back, it has a small slope towards the front and evens out. I use treated tap water with reptisafe for substrate and waterdish, and r/o for misting. I change her water every second day even though she doesn't use it. She is fed nightcrawlers and every 2 weeks I will give her a couple small horn worms, she refuses crickets. I use exo terra calcium/d3 and also there multi vitamin. I feed her every 3 days so one feeding she gets no dusting the next feeding calcium/d3 then the multivitamin the next. For the first couple months I fed every other day so she got the calcium almost 2xs a week and the multi vitamin once. This schedule has just been since its gotten cold, probably about a month and week. The only light she gets is the outside light from the picture window, and now that it gets dark earlier she gets the light from the living room lamp in the evening. I use 2 under tank heaters on each side for heat, I know this seems overkill but it was the only way for me to get the right temp. At night I unplug one. She ate tonight and the last time she pooed was about a week ago. I don't know if she is wild or captive bred, she is from petsmart. Got her in august and she was about the size of a loonie. The only symptom is the swelling and the pink on her legs. If I forgot something please let me know, im a single dad and my youngest has the flu so I have been trying to deal with her and type this at the same time.

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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Sorry frog is not well . Does not appear red leg or low temperature related edema. What did leg felt like when you took pics? Was it solid; squishy as in filled with air; or wavy as in water? Either way; think a visit to a herp vet is required for this one. Probably a local internal infection (requiring antibiotics) or subcutaneous parasites requiring surgical removal and meds. Good luck!
    Remember to take care of the enclosure and it will take care of your frog !​

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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Good morning, im trying to find a herp vet this morning to see if I can get her looked at. Carlos to answer your question her leg looked kinda clear and it kinda felt squishy but the skin looked really tight around the swelling if that makes any sense. My oldest daughter said it seemed like her leg looked like you could see inside it, almost watery looking. She has buried herself again this morning so I haven't really had a chance to look at it today. And when I first got her I got a fecal exam done through my vet and she said it came back negative. She doesn't take frogs but since im there so often with my dog because she is allergic to everything under the sun, she said she would send out the fecal for me but that was about all she could do. I then asked if the lab she sent it to would even know what to look for her and she said yes, that she has done it for a few other customers before. My veterinarian for my dog is one of the best in the city so im hopeing she wouldn't lie. I guess what im trying to get at is if the fecal passed for parasites could she have contracted now, or can they be to young sometimes to catch it when the test is first done. And all she has ever been fed since I have had her is crickets, nightcrawlers and hornworms, could she contract anything from those feeders?

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    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    So I found a herp vet but he wont be able to see her till Friday, is there anything I should do until then? She is eating and moving around so im not sure if I should quarantine her or just leave her. And I have a quick question about edema due low temps. So I have just noticed the swelling and recently she has burying herself all the way down to the glass, probably for the last month. Now even though my air temps are ok(my gauges are about a inch from the substrate) I find when I stick my finger into the substrate it is pretty cold when u get about halfway down and even colder at the bottom were she sits. Do u think this could be part of the problem.

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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    I'm going to copy this answer directly from my Amphibian Medicine and Captive Husbandry textbook by Kevin M Wright (regarded as one of the best books in amphibian medicine/research)

    "Horn frogs, Ceratophrys spp., are often noted to have subcutaneous edema with or without fluid reserve for this and other frogs, but often it is linked to a problem such as metabolic bone disease and concomitant hypocalcemia (presumably due to alteration of the lymph heart function), acute bacterial infection, renal failure, hepatic failure (low plasma protein), or exposure to water with low dissolved solutes (often suggested by low levels of plasma sodium and/or potassium and protein). Supportive care should include bathing the frog in electrolyte solutions such as amphibian ringer's solution along with treatment of the underlying etiology if known."

    It goes on to discuss localized edema (which is what your frog has on the leg/left side). Localized fluid accumulations are considered less severe and are sometimes known to spontaneously resolve on their own.

    My advice: Don't worry too much until your vet appointment. Minor localized edema is more chronic than acute. The text makes no mention of subcutaneous parasite concerns (I'm not ruling that out, I'm not an expert on parasitology, but I don't think that's the case here).

    The vet may aspirate some fluid from the leg to have it analyzed. It could be a bacterial infection and if that's the case than you will get some antibiotics. There's also the possibility that the lymph heart which supplies drainage to that area has been damaged. That could happen from trauma or rough handling (not saying that's what happened, just trying to give you more info).

    Basically! Frogs are far trickier to diagnose than your cat or dog. Kudos to you for seeking vet treatment for your lucky pacman! I suspect that the frog will be alright. Good luck!!

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    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Thanks swimminsteve, and now that you mention the rough handling it makes me think of one night maybe a couple months ago. I was feeding her and she was still pretty small at this point so I was cutting up her nightcrawlers for her feedings. When I was giveing her a piece of worm she had grab the tongs also, so me getting scared that she was going to hurt the inside of her mouth went to pull the tongs away quickly. Well she didn't let go right away so when I lifted the tongs she lifted with them and as I was trying to put her back with her still on the tip of the tong she let go and fell about 6 inches into her water dish. And she kind of hit leg first then belly. And I didn't think anything of it then because I checked to see if I touched her legs if she would show any signs of discomfort and she didn't. She actually ate the rest of her dinner then hopped away to her corner. So I really hope it wasn't from that incident or I will feel so bad. Oh and I checked in her mouth when she opened it that night during feeding her after this event and there didn't appear to be any blood or anything from the tong tip.

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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    I don't want to speculate, especially since that incident was an isolated accident. But it's possible that it may have something to do with her current symptoms.
    It's worth mentioning to the vet, anyway.
    Do you use rubber tipped or plastic tongs? Metal tipped tongs are dangerous for overzealous frogs. I'm sure you realize this now, but when a voracious frog bites onto tongs during feeding it's best if you let them release it on their own and don't pull away (which is the instinctive reaction). They will death roll around for a few seconds before realizing the tongs aren't going to fit down the hatch. It can be a scary, violent thing to witness and it's normal to want to assist, but I think it's actually safer not to intervene right away. Of course there are always exceptions...

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    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Yes at the time of the incident it was just the bare metal ones but I went out the next day and got the rubber tipped ones. That's why I kept looking at her mouth for signs of injury. I also watched her mouth area for a couple days after for any signs of swelling or anything and everything seemed ok. And yes I have learned to calm myself in those situations. L.O.L I really hope they don't tell me on Friday that's what caused it.

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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    I have just went back and read my trouble in the enclosure answers and noticed a couple errors I just wanted to fix. For the heating it is supposed to say that I use 2 uth for heat, one on each end of the tank. They way it is put now sounds like I put 2 on each end, and I just didn't want anyone to think I was trying to cook my poor frog. And it is a 20 gallon tall tank not long.

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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Good day everyone, I have a problem and was hopeing someone here can give me some advice. So first I had an appointment today with the vet and when I arrived I learned the herp vet was not in due to a family death. They told me they were trying to call everyone for today but they were really busy with the cats and dog department and hadn't got everyone yet. Another person there looked and thought maybe they could help but she wasn't sure and didn't want to diagnose the frog wrong and something worse happened. This vet is now on holidays starting next week for 2 weeks and the other herp vet still on holidays for another week, so no matter what I have to wait to a week. Im stressing now and don't know what to do, I have high anxiety and cant stop thinking about my poor frog. She still looks a little swollen in back but now its both legs, but they look as clear now. It almost looks like she has had a massive growth spurt. And I really had to bug her with the nightcrawler last night to eat, she was trying to push it away from her face. And she even took a monster poo lastnite so she was very empty. Should I put her in quarantine tank till I can get to the vet? Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

  13. #12

    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Sorry about your vet appointment. How frustrating!
    I don't see any reason to quarantine the frog (it's not like she has tankmates to begin with). I recommend that you keep her in her regular environment. Yes, some injuries/illnesses require a more sterile environment, but in this case I don't think it's called for. She is still eating and pooping so don't worry too much.
    If she seems reluctant to eat then let her skip a meal or two. Try to avoid stressing her out by digging her up. Stress will exacerbate whatever is going on with the swelling.
    Feel free to post new photo's if/when you see changes to the leg. Another week before seeing the vet shouldn't do too much damage as long as there isn't an infection. If there is an infection you may see redness and the swelling will likely spread.
    Take her to the vet when the doctor is back and try to relax until then. I know it's really stressful to have an ill pet, but I think you're doing your best.

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    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Swollen back leg!!

    Thanks again SwimminSteve, the advice is always greatly appreciated. I will post a few picture in a few days when I have to unbury her for feeding. That's the only time that I dig her up, and that's every 3 days. I don't think I can go a lot longer then that between feedings, she is only a subadult. Or in a case like this were she is not feeling well can u go abit longer?

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