Gray Treefrog / Hyla versicolor and H chrysoscelis caresheet

[John]

Our fourth care and information sheet is for the two species of Gray Treefrog, Hyla versicolor and H. chrysoscelis. It was written by Kurt Kunze and myself. It can be found here. The breeding section is still being written as of Friday June 26th 2009. Thanks to Johnny Farnen for the lovely Hyla chrysoscelis photo.

Please use this thread to discuss/debate/argue/change the care and information sheet.

[John]

Breeding and raising section has now been completed.

[Kurt]

Excellent.

[Ra]

The care sheet says large females can eat pink mice? Is that really a good idea? Seems like it couold be a choking or digestive hazard somehow.

[John]

I've never heard of a frog choking. Anybody? My female Gray Treefrog is more than capable of eating a pinkie - not that I would ever give one to her due to the mammalian fat.

[Kurt]

Come to think of it I have never seen a frog choke on anything. Tonight I fed pinkies to my White's treefrogs. No problems there. I used to have a gray treefrog that was as large as my smallest White's, but I never gave it any mice.

[Ra]

Well, I've seen Pac-Man frogs chocke on other Pac Man frogs in breeding facilities, I've even seen them choke on mice. But they were smaller baby frogs.
I wasn't aware that Gray Tree Frogs could grow so large, at least not so large as to be able to choke down a pinkie. I think perhaps the care sheet should have a warning about pinkies and mammalian fat.
I've kept Green Tree Frogs before, but just recently found a cute little Gray Tree Frog....Is a large female Green Tree Frog capable of eating a pinkie?
The care sheet looks pretty good.

[John]

I think perhaps the care sheet should have a warning about pinkies and mammalian fat.

It does in the feeding section.

I've kept Green Tree Frogs before, but just recently found a cute little Gray Tree Frog....Is a large female Green Tree Frog capable of eating a pinkie?

Greens always seem "delicate" to me, whereas Grays are generally stocky little things in comparison. However I suppose it's possible a female Green could eat a pinkie.

The care sheet looks pretty good.

Thank you very much.

[adawinters]

Fabulous caresheet. Thank you. I know that you mention that, with a bathing dish, they can sustain low humidity, but is there a recommended humidity range? (Would this be one of the areas where the two species differ? I imagine ambient humidity would be different in the SE from the NE.)

I'm just asking for future reference. I haven't kept this species in a while, but I'd love to again when I can free up some space.

[SludgeMunkey]

This care sheet has been indispensable to me since I got started in the frog keeping hobby just a few weeks back.

I utilized historical weather reports to determine what the humidity and temperature ranges for my H. chrysoscelis are. These two species have such a wide range, there is quite a bit of variation by locale.

[John]

I actually don't know what the humidity numbers should be. Grays are pretty robust and it's always pretty humid where I live, so I honestly don't keep track of the humidity other than to provide a dish of water and a mist every day.

[adawinters]

Good to know. Sounds easy enough.

[Kurt]

Humidity can change greatly from one day to the next here. So I don't think humidity is all that critical with these two species.

[petebuster1]

Great caresheet but do find the feeding methods questionable,having to keep taking them out and putting them in another container with the prey seems it might be a bit stressful rather than the opposite for the frogs and hard work for the keeper at feeding times and ive never come across one unwilling to eat.I've always found they get used to you very quickly with your everyday visits to their enclosure. Feeding with tweezers surely takes their natural instinct of the hunt away and again a lot of work if you keep several or many frogs.
In my experience i'm hard pressed to find a living cricket within a few hours and never had a problem with crickets doing the frogs any harm. Watching them hunt is all part of what we get out of keeping them ,doing what they do naturally. I dont think they need our help that much.

[Tom Highum]

It is to prevent over feeding.

[John]

Living in the UK I somehow doubt you ever have to deal with newly captive Gray Tree Frogs. I've found that males often require that feeding approach when newly captive - otherwise you end up having to starve them into taking food from a forceps.

[petebuster1]

I actually don't know what the humidity numbers should be. Grays are pretty robust and it's always pretty humid where I live, so I honestly don't keep track of the humidity other than to provide a dish of water and a mist every day.

No nor do i and never had a problem they are in warm room and with spraying and a bowl of water there's no need to keep checking.

[petebuster1]

It is to prevent over feeding.

you dont have to remove them to avoid that surely? mine aren't over fed i put enough but not too many in every 3 days,very rarely do i have to remove any.

[petebuster1]

Living in the UK I somehow doubt you ever have to deal with newly captive Gray Tree Frogs. I've found that males often require that feeding approach when newly captive - otherwise you end up having to starve them into taking food from a forceps.

I strongly suspect ive probably only (until recently) purchased wc ones,with a lot of stressful travelling on top and still no problem. I doubt very many are cb over here,i have finally found one breeder but thats it.But if i had newly captive ones that weren't eating, i suspect it would be because they are overly stressed (not that they seem overly sensitive) and would let them go back to their natural habitat if i happened to live not too far from the same area.
Maybe i'm wrong but in 20 years i've never come across a wc or cb frog that wont readily take food unless ill.I've kept greys for 8 years, rescued a few unwanted ones,not been properly cared for......etc and never come across one that wont readily eat unless its been ill.
Not disagreeing with you just something i've never come across in many years with several species

[Ra]

Sometimes I fond it fun to feed them by hand, at other times I toss the crickets right into the beautifully planted naturalistic terrarium.
On the one hand, these frogs are fairly active foragers, I've witnessed mine hopping about looking behind, under and between everything in the cage in search of food, so he's not lacking a workout there if he is hand fed regularly.
I've also never had any problems placing live food directly into the terrarium. A fair number of sow bugs live permanently inside the terrarium, and crickets don't last long once offered.
Some people seem to have this rather (IMO) ridiculous fear of their frogs eating the substrate. I'm not overly concerned with this. I keep my frogs in naturalistic terrariums with a substrate of additive free top soil with living or dried sheet moss over it. If the frog ingests a small amount of either of these (which I've never seen happen) I don't see it giving them the same kind of problems as bark chips, gravel or rough sand would, which I don't suggest that you use for that very reason anyway.
I'm unaware that recently captive male grays are fussy eaters that need to be coddled, mine ate like a pig from day one. But then of course, he didnt have to go through all the stress of being put into crowded holding cages until he was shipped over seas. It was a short trip from the woods to my living room for him, and he's done well ever since.
Though they are a common species here, I'm interested in breeding them.

When it gets right down to it, its really just a matter of the preferances of the keepers.