I.Love.Toads

[LilyPad]

Okay, these little baby toads we have are the friendliest little things!!! It's amazing how much more quickly these toads adapt to humans and look forward to feeding them. Every time I go near the cage, they all pop out of their hiding places to see if it is feeding time!

Right now I have them all housed together in a 10 gallon tank, they are so tiny that I know the size isn't important quite yet. But what size tank will they need when they are big and fat?

I hate trying to find decent fruit flies and pinheads though. The pinheads are either more like 'small" crickets and nearly as big as the toads, or the fruit flies are half dead yet they're charging me a fortune for them! How long are these toadlets going to need fruit flies? These toads definitely morphed this week, they are TINY. Is it worth starting a culture that I wont use once they are adults?

[John]

You should culture your own fruit flies. They will need them for a few months I think.

It will take you a few weeks to have production of flies so you need to persevere in the mean time. Tiny frogs and toads are a pain to raise because of the tiny foods, unless you are already culturing fruit flies for darts, etc.

As to size of terrarium, have a look at the basic toad care article - I think it has someone on that.

[nicodimus22]

I hear ya Amy. Fruit flies are not cheap to keep buying. I have been feeding mine each
night (fruit flies powdered with Repashy ICB+) and they are growing slowly, but won't be
able to handle crickets for a while. I'm not planning on culturing fruit flies, but if I had
much more than three toads, I might. I measured them tonight and they are still only
between 3/4" and 7/8" from nose to rump. I have had them for about 5 weeks now.
You can see how much they have grown in roughly a month's time:





As far as the space goes, what I have heard from numerous sources is for adult
(American, and I would assume most Bufo) toads, the rule of thumb for minimum space
is 10 gallons for one toad, and add 5 gallons for each additional toad. In other words:

1 toad = 10 gallon minimum
2 toads = 15 gallon minimum
3 toads = 20 gallon minimum

...and so forth. Of course, that is if you're using an aquarium. Floor space and room to
burrow are more important than climbing height for them, and you can also make a nice
home out of a wide plastic storage bin or similar container (with plenty of ventilation, of
course.) Mine are currently living in a 10 gallon tank, which will work for a while, but
eventually I plan on upgrading to a 29.

I demand more pictures of your babies!

[LilyPad]

They're about the size of your toads in the first picture! I will get more pics now that they are comfy and popping out. The leaf litter really made it hard to keep track of them, but I will get on it tomorrow! I have a 29 gallon also, so I'll probably pop them in there when they get bigger!

[Greg M]

I've found that a bit of heat on one side of the tank (low-wattage bulb, etc) seems to encourage rapid growth. Mine are next to a horned frog enclosure and they bask in the radiating heat. I read an article on the importance of thermoregulation for optimal growth (with respect to Boreal toads) and it seems to hold true for other toads as well. Under optimal conditions, toads grow very quickly and fruit flies become unnecessary. I transition to little Dubia nymphs and isopods (high in calcium) pretty quickly (I find little crickets to be annoying, but that's just me...).

[LilyPad]

Very interesting. I have a 15 watt bulb on it right now but I do have a UTH on the tank that I haven't used yet. I have the a/c off today and it is warm, so I think I'll leave it for now but if it cools off, I'll turn on the UTH.

[Curb71]

I can't get find pinheads anywhere and fruit flies I've done and they are just to expensive. I've been buying small crickets which are cheap and chopping them in half and feeding them to the toads. quite gross but cost-wise it works for me and the toads love it. they eat them right off the forceps sometimes

[Greg M]

Another option, if you have a pesticide-free place to dig for earthwworms, is to chop up very small earthworms - I used to raise baby pacific chorus (tree) frogs largely on chopped up earthworms. Even very small sections of small worms wiggle nicely and can be fed to small herps. I used to dice them up and thread them onto a piece of fishing line to feed very small salamanders. Some species of toads don't seem to be very good at eating large earthworms - some of my Woodhouse's toads just can't seem to grab the worm. However, small sections (that can be pulled into the mouth with the tongue) generally work fine.

[nicodimus22]

I've found that a bit of heat on one side of the tank (low-wattage bulb, etc) seems to encourage rapid growth. Mine are next to a horned frog enclosure and they bask in the radiating heat. I read an article on the importance of thermoregulation for optimal growth (with respect to Boreal toads) and it seems to hold true for other toads as well. Under optimal conditions, toads grow very quickly and fruit flies become unnecessary. I transition to little Dubia nymphs and isopods (high in calcium) pretty quickly (I find little crickets to be annoying, but that's just me...).

Interesting. My toadlets have taken to burying themselves during most of the day lately. I wonder if getting a low-wattage lamp of some kind would be beneficial, or if it would just be a total waste of time since they're underground most of the time and wouldn't even notice. Right now, the room they are in is kept in the mid-70s, temperature-wise. Their tank is plenty big for how tiny they are at the moment (3 toadlets that are about 3/4" long in a 10-gallon aquarium.) It doesn't seem like they are growing very quickly any more, despite eating a lot and getting good nutrition. I am wishing that they would grow faster because right now I am going through a lot of fruit flies, and it's expensive.

[nicodimus22]

Seeing some seemingly conflicting information out there on whether to use a lamp or not:

How to Care for an American Toad | eHow.com

"Maintain the temperature of the habitat between 65 and 80 degrees Fahrenheit. Unlike reptiles, toads don't require supplemental heat lamps for health. In fact, toads overheat easily so you must protect them from summer's elements."



versus



ESA Online Journals - The Role of Behavioral Thermoregulation in the Growth Energetics of the Toad, Bufo Boreas

"In the laboratory, toads thermoregulate by basking beneath incandescent lamps when placed within a photothermal gradient. Basking depends on feeding, and when food is withheld, individuals abandon the available heat source and assume lower body temperatures. The preferred temperature of feeding individuals is around 26—27 degrees C as determined from animals both in the laboratory and in nature"

[Greg M]

Hey nicodimus,

Good job on finding and posting that ESA article - I found it and read it a while ago, but I couldn't remember where I'd read it! I tend to put more credence in the ESA article...

I think the take home message here is: 1) each species has an optimal temperature for growth and foraging, 2) toads thermoregulate by moving to warmer or cooler areas to optimize their metabolisms for the available conditions, and 3) overheating an amphibian is a bad idea!

If the toads are exhibiting less-than-optimal growth, look to your growth conditions - is temperature too low (or high), etc., etc. A good metric, when available, are comparably aged wild grown specimens. One thing researchers noticed with the Boreal toads was that lab-grown toads often lagged behind their wild contemporaries in growth, and this is what pointed them towards temperature (and ability to thermoregulate) as contributing factors.

One possibility is to use a low-wattage (40) ceramic heater at one end of the tank (assuming you are using at least a 10 gallon tank) and see which end they prefer! As I mentioned, mine hang out at the side of the tank which abuts the horned frog enclosure and runs about 80 - 85 degrees. Toad growth can be very fast - by way of an example, my albino Woodhouse's toad grew from 1.25 to 3.25 inches in two months, and my large female went from 1.25 to 4.5 inches in three months. Under optimal condition, you can go from 0.5 inch toadlet to sexually mature 3 - 4+ inch Woodhouse's toad in under 1 year....

[nicodimus22]

If the toads are exhibiting less-than-optimal growth, look to your growth conditions - is temperature too low (or high), etc., etc. A good metric, when available, are comparably aged wild grown specimens.

Occasionally during my daily walks, I do see wild toadlets, and they are the same size as mine are (although they have moved up to a mile from where I found mine.) If all the wild ones I saw were big and fat, I would be more concerned. I'm relying on the assumption that they all morphed around the same time in early June.

On a different note...my toads ate like hogs about 48 hours ago, and I haven't seen them since. They have been buried all this time. I hate digging them up to feed them, as it seems unnatural to me and a little dangerous for them. The consensus seems to be that young toadlets should be fed daily, but if they don't ever come out...bleh. I have looked for them at all times of day and night, but they just don't come out lately, even to soak in the water dish.

A couple of weeks ago, I made some changes to their home, because I thought maybe there wasn't enough privacy the way I had it set up initially. I printed out some greenish forest photos on letter-sized paper and taped it up as backing on 3 sides of the tank to make them feel more secure. I also added an extra inch of substrate to burrow in and 2 hides (cutting a black DVD case in half sideways, and standing up both ends tent-style as hides in different corners.) It doesn't look like it in these photos because of the flash, but it gets pretty dark in the hides even in the daytime.






I was hoping that these changes would make them feel more comfortable and secure, and that maybe they would come out more. Instead, the opposite seems to be happening. I have also taken to feeding them in a separate container, hoping they would associate me with food, but so far they seem indifferent to me. Thoughts on any of the above?

[LilyPad]

I have a bunch of leaf litter in mine, they are out all the time! If they get scared, then they just pop into the leaves. I think because there is so much cover for them in there, they are happy coming out.

[nicodimus22]

I have a bunch of leaf litter in mine, they are out all the time! If they get scared, then they just pop into the leaves. I think because there is so much cover for them in there, they are happy coming out.

The thought of putting leaf litter in there had crossed my mind, but I am wary of introducing any parasites or pesticides that might be in the leaves. Perhaps I'm just a worrywart.

[LilyPad]

I figured that since my frogs came from outside...then I could put the leaves in from where we found them LOL You can always buy some leaf litter, Josh's frogs has some and I know I've seen them elsewhere.

[nicodimus22]

I figured that since my frogs came from outside...then I could put the leaves in from where we found them LOL You can always buy some leaf litter, Josh's frogs has some and I know I've seen them elsewhere.

I may buy some leaf litter if they keep being so reclusive and see if it helps.

On a happier note, all 3 of my toads came out on their own at dusk tonight. They were hungry. I'm trying the top of an egg crate with entrances cut on 3 sides to see if they like that for a hide any better. It's pretty big, there are lots of semi-compartmentalized nooks and crannies for them to hide in, and they can also go in and out of the "skylights." One of them started climbing on it the moment I put it in, and then plopped down inside from the top. The other two just used the doors in the sides.

[Wormwood]

I'd try taking out like half (if not more) of that substrate until they get a little older and rooting around for them is safer. The more shallow it is the better in this instance, just give them enough to be able to cover their backs right now.

Thumbs up on the egg crate, good idea.

[LilyPad]

The egg crate is a good idea, good way to make them feel safe! My substrate is about that deep also, but my toads don't seem to do much burrowing, they just go in the hides and under the leaves.

[Greg M]

I like the egg-crate idea! I may use that one myself. My toads have become less concerned about cover as they have grown older - most of them just sit in their favorite spots, without burying themselves at all. They make toad pyramids a lot! In the winter, however, they do tend to remain hidden for long periods.

Young toads tend to be hungry every day but I don't think it is necessary to dig them up - if they are plump, just feed them when they are obviously out looking for food.

The other thing I've noticed is that toadlets will kind of idle along until something kicks in and they have a massive growth spurt during which they attain more or less their mature size. My (current) largest toad didn't appear to be growing at all for about 4 months when she was a toadlet. We thought that we were going to have to move her to a different cage because her cage-mate was growing and she wasn't and we thought that she was in danger of being eaten. Then all of the sudden, she grows more than 3.5 inches in two months!

[LilyPad]

My (current) largest toad didn't appear to be growing at all for about 4 months when she was a toadlet. We thought that we were going to have to move her to a different cage because her cage-mate was growing and she wasn't and we thought that she was in danger of being eaten. Then all of the sudden, she grows more than 3.5 inches in two months!

I have only had my toads for about a week, but they all started the same size. One has already grown leaps and bounds above the others. I worry about the same thing! Hopefully the others will catch up.