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Thread: Too many frogs dying

  1. #21
    100+ Post Member ViperJr's Avatar
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    Why not make it a sticky in every categori?

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  3. #22
    clownonfire
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    Quote Originally Posted by ViperJr View Post
    Why not make it a sticky in every categori?
    It's a great idea, VipeJr. We're working on it. For the time being, we will fanatically bump it as if there were no tomorrow!

  4. #23
    bshmerlie
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    Quote Originally Posted by Kurt View Post
    I would also add, often when a frog or other wild animal (remember ALL frogs are wild animals) shows signs of illness its often too late to do anything about it. Prevention is the best kind of medicine.
    That is exactly why I said the other thread we have going on right now about how your tank looks really goes hand and hand. Setting up an appropriate and stable environment for your frog is extremely vital. A stressed frog will eventually mean a sick frog. Also where you buy your frog from also matters. Buying wild caught or from a large pet chain is not the ideal place. They often come with parasites and diseases that a new frog owner is not equipped to handle. Buy captive bred frogs from a reliable breeder is the best way to start out with frogs. Please be sure to research the frog species of your choice before you purchase them. Again...check out the other thread I mentioned.

    Http://www.frogforum.net/vivarium-te...look-like.html

  5. #24
    clownonfire
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    There have been less posts about sick frogs or dead frogs, although still some.

    Remember.... Take care of your frogs. If they are sick and need an herp vet, please make the necessary arrangements...

    Eric

  6. #25
    bshmerlie
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    Also summer is in full swing in a lot of states. I've talked with some people who are already dealing with overheating issues with some tank temps getting into the 90s. That's way too warm for a lot of frogs. Please monitor your temps and check out the 10 day forecasts so you don't get caught off guard.

  7. #26
    clownonfire
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    Quote Originally Posted by bshmerlie View Post
    Also summer is in full swing in a lot of states. I've talked with some people who are already dealing with overheating issues with some tank temps getting into the 90s. That's way too warm for a lot of frogs. Please monitor your temps and check out the 10 day forecasts so you don't get caught off guard.
    It's a very good point. We have horrid humid summers in Montreal, and had higher temperature than usual these past few days. Most of the frogs I keep don't tolerate high heat, but the Phyllobates terribilis and the Atelopus hoogmoedi even less. So fans were installed in their tanks.

    Here's a tip: Make sure that if you install a fan in a tank where high humidity is needed that you increase your misting as stronger air circulation will dry up your tanks faster.

  8. #27
    Moderator LilyPad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    I was given my frog rather suddenly and had very little time to figure things out! I did, however, read a million pages about caring for tree frogs (when I got my frog I didn't even know what kind it was!) and then shoot off to petsmart and buy the basics.

    It's been 8 days since I got that little frog. I have been reading nonstop about care for it and asking questions as often as I can think of them. I am constantly tweaking and revamping her habitat as needed this last week.

    I'm actually enjoying caring for this little froggy so much I might consider getting another one in a few months!

    My pets are my family members too though, so I cant imagine giving them less than the absolute best care.

  9. #28
    ARMS87
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    The only amphibian species I've never lost any of them is my FBTs I've had them for years all in goo health, I have had DAFs for about a year I had 5 now I have 4, one got it's foot stuck and drowned..
    I've had 4 Axolotl, 1 died of parasites. Had tons of FBNs lost 3 to fungal infection.
    I've had half a dozen Tree Frogs only 2 remain, 4 died, they looked like they had a fit, no idea what happened.

    I always follow the caresheets but I still loose animals.

    I'm happy keeping my FBTs and DAFs for now, would try FBNs again, but I'm realising I'm deffinately a reptile man..

  10. #29
    Jeff Kennedy
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    Great thread with a lot of valid points within. To touch on what Tony says, unfortuneately, the almighty $$$ will always come in to play with most beginners in the hobby. Take it from someone that is in the show circuit. We are in an industry that preaches "captive bred". When we vend shows, they too are suppose to be captive bred. It doesn't take long to figure out that the promoters don't even care about enforcing this rule as the majority of vendors around you are peddling diseased, malnourished **** that they picked up for a couple of bucks. In my experience, some folks will actually pass on that bright eyed, plump and colorful frog being offered by someone that specializes in frogs and purchase a skinny, dehydrated, drab frog from a guy that is offering Savannah's, Green Iguanas, scorpions, frogs, etc, in filthy deli cups, just because it is $5 cheaper. Unfortuneately, the frog almost always dies, yet those same people will come back a month later and buy another "throw away" animal from the same vendors!! This has been the most troubling thing for me to witness. How many of the affordable frog species are now treated like the common goldfish. Instead of doing the research and trying to provide the right environment for your animal, they are purchased spur of the moment because they look "cool". Then when the frog stress's out because of it's environment or succumbs to diseases, the person just buys another one, goes back home and throws it in the same enclosure as the deceased one. My points for any newbie's, 1) Research, research, research!!! If you really love this stuff, then this is one of the most fun aspects of it all!! Learning about the animal and setting up the enclosure!!!. 2) Buy from a reputable breeder/vendor. There are a ton of the "good guys" out there who do this stuff for the love/education/preservation of these amazing animals. NOT FOR THE MONEY!!! In closing, ANYTHING can happen with frogs. That said, you can purchase from a reputable breeder, receive an amazing animal, place it in the perfect environment that you spent months planning and still have a frog pass away. This is part of life and can just happen at times, however if you follow just those 2 simple steps above, the chances of this happening go down drastically. I field emails and PM's daily from people pertaining to Pacs and Pyxies. It's the area that I am most versed in and welcome any questions or concerns that any of you guys might have. There are many others on this forum that specialize in other frog species that are just as eager to help people out.

  11. #30
    clownonfire
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Kennedy View Post
    Great thread with a lot of valid points within. To touch on what Tony says, unfortuneately, the almighty $$$ will always come in to play with most beginners in the hobby. Take it from someone that is in the show circuit. We are in an industry that preaches "captive bred". When we vend shows, they too are suppose to be captive bred. It doesn't take long to figure out that the promoters don't even care about enforcing this rule as the majority of vendors around you are peddling diseased, malnourished **** that they picked up for a couple of bucks. In my experience, some folks will actually pass on that bright eyed, plump and colorful frog being offered by someone that specializes in frogs and purchase a skinny, dehydrated, drab frog from a guy that is offering Savannah's, Green Iguanas, scorpions, frogs, etc, in filthy deli cups, just because it is $5 cheaper. Unfortuneately, the frog almost always dies, yet those same people will come back a month later and buy another "throw away" animal from the same vendors!! This has been the most troubling thing for me to witness. How many of the affordable frog species are now treated like the common goldfish. Instead of doing the research and trying to provide the right environment for your animal, they are purchased spur of the moment because they look "cool". Then when the frog stress's out because of it's environment or succumbs to diseases, the person just buys another one, goes back home and throws it in the same enclosure as the deceased one. My points for any newbie's, 1) Research, research, research!!! If you really love this stuff, then this is one of the most fun aspects of it all!! Learning about the animal and setting up the enclosure!!!. 2) Buy from a reputable breeder/vendor. There are a ton of the "good guys" out there who do this stuff for the love/education/preservation of these amazing animals. NOT FOR THE MONEY!!! In closing, ANYTHING can happen with frogs. That said, you can purchase from a reputable breeder, receive an amazing animal, place it in the perfect environment that you spent months planning and still have a frog pass away. This is part of life and can just happen at times, however if you follow just those 2 simple steps above, the chances of this happening go down drastically. I field emails and PM's daily from people pertaining to Pacs and Pyxies. It's the area that I am most versed in and welcome any questions or concerns that any of you guys might have. There are many others on this forum that specialize in other frog species that are just as eager to help people out.
    Those are very valid points, Jeff. You can have great husbandry and still have some mortality in your captive frogs. But as you said, one of the key is to make sure you have knowledge about your frogs. And to do so, you will have to research, asks questions, make mistakes, learn from your mistakes. And I know you preach what you teach. There's so care sheets on your website, which can be very beneficial for new Giant African Bullfrog owner, for example.

    Recently, I've seen a desire from new members on this board to learn, and an openness to receive a few tips or best practices by other hobbyists. It's quite reassuring!

    Eric

  12. #31
    Moderator LilyPad's Avatar
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    I just feel like bumping this today
    2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
    2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"

    0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
    0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"



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  14. #32
    FrogFever
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    I have noticed all of the sick, urgent frog posts lately too. I myself am guilty of posting about a sick frog on this site and you guys have been so kind and quick in response to help me. I've always researched the net first before I asked questions, but not ALL answers are easy to find for the less common species. A Google search on the more serious, specific matters has many times lead me to this website for the proper answers. On a couple of occasions it seems that this site is the only place for the right help and we are all so grateful for that. I know I am. And yes, the basic husbandry of frogs SHOULD be known and put into action before purchasing animals, but unfortunately people are impulse buyers, particularly when its right in front of them at a chain store.
    No matter what question they have I think what people are looking for is a quick answer. ..I think it wouldn't hurt to make the SEARCH button a little more noticeable, somehow. (Its just a little button in the top right corner.) Then someone could very readily search for specific words or general phrases BEFORE they ask questions.... I'm not a moderator by any means, or even a senior member but I know that I didn't see the search button for the longest time. And boy is there a wealth of information no matter what you're looking for!

  15. #33
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    This is a very important thread. It's good to lay all the facts out in the open, sobering as they are.

    I think it might be a good idea to add some kind of checklist or pre-screening for froggy ownership e.g. "X things you need to know BEFORE bringing a frog home" under the Care Info section. The "Choosing a Frog" section does cover some of this already, but it proceeds from the notion that the reader is already getting a frog. What I'm proposing is something more cautionary. We can parse the more experienced among the community for ideas and then distill it down to the essentials in simple, blunt language. A few things I can think of right off the bat:

    Take a deep breath. Dial down the emotion from how cute or awesome the creature looks. Think about the unpleasant aspects of pet keeping - poop collecting, tank cleaning, substrate/filter changing, buying feeders, visits to the vet. Ask yourself: Would I still want to do these things 3 weeks down the line? What about 3 months? 3 years?

    Proper mentality - it's not about you. The needs of the animal come first. Your personal enjoyment should be derived FROM, NOT AT THE COST OF, the healthfulness of the animal.

    Do your homework LONG AHEAD of time. Get educated on all aspects of the hobby - science, species, care info, housing, equipment, long term maintenance. This is easier than ever with the Internet and forums such as these. Figure out how much it will cost and how much frog you can afford. Select the species accordingly. Tell your family (not an optional step). Get the habitat figured out, constructed, and, if applicable, grown in BEFORE purchasing a frog. Also, begin researching a reputable a vet specializing in frog/amphibian care in your area BEFORE issues arise.

    When it comes to frogs, your gut urges are often WRONG. You may have the urge to mix species in the same habitat; to cram multiple specimens in a small enclosure; to buy the most colorful and exotic looking species; to skimp on the details out of pennypinching or impatience; to touch the frog often; to hold it in your hand and have it perch on your shoulder like a parrot. DON’T. Learn to separate the facts from your kneejerk reactions for the good of the animal, else you have no business keeping one.

    Take an honest appraisal of your life. Are you a responsible person who has had the judgment, ethics and discipline to take good care of yourself and your charges? If your own life is a mess; if you have trouble getting the bills paid; if your work keeps you too busy to so much as water a houseplant; the last thing you need is another mouth to feed. In short, if you are unable to commit the time, resources, effort, and yes, disposable income for the long haul, you have no business owning a frog.

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  17. #34
    clownonfire
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    Default Re: Too many frogs dying

    Quote Originally Posted by killerecho View Post
    This is a very important thread. It's good to lay all the facts out in the open, sobering as they are.

    I think it might be a good idea to add some kind of checklist or pre-screening for froggy ownership e.g. "X things you need to know BEFORE bringing a frog home" under the Care Info section. The "Choosing a Frog" section does cover some of this already, but it proceeds from the notion that the reader is already getting a frog. What I'm proposing is something more cautionary. We can parse the more experienced among the community for ideas and then distill it down to the essentials in simple, blunt language. A few things I can think of right off the bat:

    Take a deep breath. Dial down the emotion from how cute or awesome the creature looks. Think about the unpleasant aspects of pet keeping - poop collecting, tank cleaning, substrate/filter changing, buying feeders, visits to the vet. Ask yourself: Would I still want to do these things 3 weeks down the line? What about 3 months? 3 years?

    Proper mentality - it's not about you. The needs of the animal come first. Your personal enjoyment should be derived FROM, NOT AT THE COST OF, the healthfulness of the animal.

    Do your homework LONG AHEAD of time. Get educated on all aspects of the hobby - science, species, care info, housing, equipment, long term maintenance. This is easier than ever with the Internet and forums such as these. Figure out how much it will cost and how much frog you can afford. Select the species accordingly. Tell your family (not an optional step). Get the habitat figured out, constructed, and, if applicable, grown in BEFORE purchasing a frog. Also, begin researching a reputable a vet specializing in frog/amphibian care in your area BEFORE issues arise.

    When it comes to frogs, your gut urges are often WRONG. You may have the urge to mix species in the same habitat; to cram multiple specimens in a small enclosure; to buy the most colorful and exotic looking species; to skimp on the details out of pennypinching or impatience; to touch the frog often; to hold it in your hand and have it perch on your shoulder like a parrot. DON’T. Learn to separate the facts from your kneejerk reactions for the good of the animal, else you have no business keeping one.

    Take an honest appraisal of your life. Are you a responsible person who has had the judgment, ethics and discipline to take good care of yourself and your charges? If your own life is a mess; if you have trouble getting the bills paid; if your work keeps you too busy to so much as water a houseplant; the last thing you need is another mouth to feed. In short, if you are unable to commit the time, resources, effort, and yes, disposable income for the long haul, you have no business owning a frog.
    Brian, I honestly really appreciate your approach. I think you are spot on. A friend told me not too long ago when I shared this thread with her that it's similar to kittens and why they are so many stray cats out there... Often enough, a kid or other will see a kitten... It looks cute. Then the kitten grows, it's less cute, it need to be fed and to have its litter changed regularly and the novelty of the cute kitten passes.... And it's one more cat at the animal shelter....... Thanks Brian for sharing this. And yes, if you'd like, you could start writing this pre-check list and we could all help you out with it.

    FrogWrangler, I'll see if it's possible to make the Search button bigger. In all fairness though, it's one of the most obvious ones if you compare it to other boards...

    As for us appearing in Google when a search is done on sick frogs, it's great, but it's one step too late.... Some frogs will be sick, even with proper husbandry... But a very large number of frogs could be saved if research and proper care would have been given to the frog. Once you're here, it's often enough too late...

    Again, I'm stressing this out, even with proper husbandry, death is still a reality: Deceased toad.
    Last edited by clownonfire; June 19th, 2011 at 08:58 AM.

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