Red-Eyed Tree Frog Proper feeding. Help please!

[Fixall]

Hello everyone on this wonderful and helpful forum!

About a month ago I was at the local pet shop picking up some new toys for Veda the Ball Python when I noticed the two most adorable (but a little sickly) Red-Eyed Tree Frogs I had ever seen. They were sleeping side by side underneath the same leaf. They were just little guys, one about an inch and a half and the other just ever so slightly larger. The pet shop owner explained to me how he thought they were male and female judging by the noses and the fact he'd only heard the smallest sing. He said they were too young to tell but he liked to think of it that way as the smallest frog followed the other around like a lost puppy.

Then he told me he was worried about them because they both had a case of Oodinium that he couldn't seem to get rid of (the tank looked clean). Knowing I had a couple extra tanks Veda had outgrown (she's a shade over 5ft now!) he offered to give the pair to me for no charge with the promise to do my best for them.

Using the excellent info found on this forum, I treated the frogs with a spring water bath. Later I upgraded to a distilled water and chamomile bath. That seemed to do the trick. The oodinium is gone, they are more active, and they seem to be thriving (the smaller one still sleeps wherever the other sleeps, and i've still only heard the smaller frog call).

Now that you know their story, this is where we need your help!

I've scoured the Internet looking for advice on how much and how often to feed them but it seems EVERYONE has a different answer. Some say 3 or 4 small/pinhead crickets each, every day. Some say every other day, some say as many as they will finish in one night... Which is it?

I had been feeding them 4 small crickets each every other night, but I noticed on off nights they would both be sitting on the edge of the feeding bowl, waiting. So I bumped it up to 3 crickets apiece, every night. I watched them for a week or so and noticed after eating they wait on the dish for a few hours looking for more. I then bumped it up to 5 small crickets per frog every night. Same result. So tonight I started with 12 smalls total for the two of them. They made quick work of them, went to soak and defecate, and then went back to hunting in their food dish. I added 4 more and they ate these also... This is where I stopped... And this is where we are now.

What do I do? It seems they have an insatiable appetite and I don't want them to eat themselves to death. Is this normal? Could they have worms? All other habits seem to be normal.

*note about food*
I'm feeding them small crickets gut loaded with Fluker's Orange Cube Complete Nutrition food and dusted every other feeding with reptocal with D3.

[bshmerlie]

Welcome to the forum Fixall. It sounds like you are doing a fantastic job with your new frogs. When you get a chance post a picture of your frogs and their enclosure. As far as feeding goes...the good thing about red eyes is they never really seem to get fat. I feed my guys as much as they want. You said small crickets so im assuming these are not pinhead crickets. I feed quarter inch crickets and sometimes slightly larger. Basically...look at the distance between their two eyes and that should be the appropriate size. Its great that you have them eating from a feeding dish. It helps you to monitor them eating at the same time prevents crickets from getting lost and dying in the enclosure. So bottom line is don't worry about over feeding them. They are still growing and as they get older they will regulate themselves. If they start looking too chubby trim it back. But it sounds like they are active and eating well so don't mess with perfection and keep doing as you're doing. Unlike some other frogs red eyes don't tend to have an obesity problem. Again just look at their body shapes and adjust accordingly. Also make sure you have a shallow soaking dish for them with just treated tap water. Change out the water every morning so it will be fresh for them the next night. I think you will find frogs to be very fascinating animals to keep. Just watch out it can become an addiction. There is a whole frog world out there....thanks for joining us. Check out the red eye care article on the left.

[Leefrogs]

welcome to the forum. Glad to have you, you're really involved in a great endevor. So glad you cured them on your own. I've never seen picures of oodinium. If you happened to have some to post, I would like to see them. I have two cousins to the reds, yellow eyes, and they're a little smaller than yours, and they eat 1/4 inch crix also. Cheri was right on, feed them all they want. Mine have grown 1/4 to 3/8 inch in two weeks, so expect them to grow very fast, they need the food. Mine are just starting to fill their bones out, and looking a little chunky.

[Tony]

Then he told me he was worried about them because they both had a case of Oodinium that he couldn't seem to get rid of (the tank looked clean).

I'm curious as to how he arrived at that diagnosis. As far as I am aware Oodinium only infects fish and presents similar symptoms to ich. I'm wondering if maybe he was confusing their normal white spotting for a disease.

Are they white spots like this?

[bshmerlie]

That's a good catch Tony....you're probably right. A non frog person probably would think the white dots are a disease like ick. Not knowing they are just harmless frog freckles.

[Fixall]

When you get a chance post a picture of your frogs and their enclosure.

I most definitely will! Saturday is tank cleaning day so that seems like a good time to get a few pictures. Does anyone have any solid advice on how to take a good picture of Red-Eye's in their tank? I've tried a couple shots but because of their small size, color matching their plants, and all the stuff in their tank throwing off my focus, I've had little luck.

You said small crickets so im assuming these are not pinhead crickets. Basically...look at the distance between their two eyes and that should be the appropriate size

Oops! Yes, my mistake. I meant small crickets. I was under the impression that pinheads and smalls were the same but I've now seen the difference. The smalls seem to be the perfect size using the "distance between the eyes" method.

Its great that you have them eating from a feeding dish. It helps you to monitor them eating at the same time prevents crickets from getting lost and dying in the enclosure.

Hahaha! Yea... I actually started out feeding them "free-range" which was a mistake. I found two problems... First it seems the crickets I purchase moonlight as an excavation team and if I don't put them in a dish they tend to dig underneath the plants to hide. The second problem I found almost had me rolling on the ground laughing. I use Eco Earth Coconut Husk substrate, and whenever the frogs hunted the crickets free range, they would pounce on them like a tiger... Then abruptly receive a mouthful of substrate along with their cricket. When this happens their little hands FLY to their mouths and they quickly fling out the substrate along with the (now dead and unappetizing) cricket. After that happens they tend to take a break from hunting for a half hour to an hour. The feeding dish has solved both these problems. and it's cute watching them sit on the edge of the bowl taking turns.

Also make sure you have a shallow soaking dish for them with just treated tap water. Change out the water every morning so it will be fresh for them the next night. Check out the red eye care article on the left.

I use the standard stone corner water dish that you find at EVERY pet store in the world, it seems to be the perfect size. I've been changing their water at night right before I kill their lights and feed them but I think I will use your advice and give them water in the morning so the water will consistently be the same temperature when they use it at night. Also... I have been using tap water treated with 1 drop of Reptidrops per 4oz of water, but I was curious on people's thoughts on using water from a Brita filter treated with the Reptidrops? It leaves some of the minerals in the water but insures things like lead are gone. That care article is WONDERFULLY written! I stopped their first and have read it a couple times and gotten great info! The only thing it didn't mention was the amount to feed. Which you guys' have thankfully answered for me.

I've never seen picures of oodinium.

I unfortunately didn't take any pictures while they were sick as I did my best to just let them be while they were recovering (I should have shot some during their baths!).

I'm curious as to how he arrived at that diagnosis. As far as I am aware Oodinium only infects fish and presents similar symptoms to ich. I'm wondering if maybe he was confusing their normal white spotting for a disease.

Too be honest I'm not sure how he arrived at the diagnosis. The info I have from him is that both of them had become sluggish and weren't feeding as regularly as the first two weeks he got them in.

When he showed me what he assumed was Oodinium it looked very similar to the Ich that seems to be rampant at our local Wal~Marts fish tanks. Now that they are healthy (I hope) the smaller of the two frogs (male?) has 0 spots and the bigger frog (female) has 3 white spots on her back that look exactly like the markings on your frog. The spots they had when I first got them looked different however. They were unregularly shaped when compared to the three dots on the bigger frog. Also they almost had a fuzzy look to them, like they weren't as smooth as the three dots on the bigger frog, hard to explain. And lastly they were several sections of spotting on both frogs which appears to be completely gone.

Could it have been something else? Some kind of fungus? Either way it seems to be gone and they seem to be doing well. I hope this is the case!

Thanks everyone for all the help! You guys' are (froggy) lifesaver's!!

P.S.
Thanks for the warm welcome to the forum!

[Fixall]

A couple of previously mentioned pictures that didn't turn out so well. I'll try to get some good ones when I clean their tank.




The smaller of the two (definite male as he calls quite often late at night when the humidity is high).



The two of them together. The male is in the front, his skin is a little blotchy as he was in the process of lightening his his shade.
The bigger of the two (female?) is in the rear, her poor pupils are dialated as the leaf that had been shading her was pushed aside.

[UncleChester]

I most definitely will! Saturday is tank cleaning day so that seems like a good time to get a few pictures. Does anyone have any solid advice on how to take a good picture of Red-Eye's in their tank? I've tried a couple shots but because of their small size, color matching their plants, and all the stuff in their tank throwing off my focus, I've had little luck.

1. Camera in macro mode
2. Min focus for your camera (in macro mode) is 4" (this may depend on how 'zoomed in' you are too), make sure you are no closer
3. After you get an auto focus confirmation from half pressing the shutter, move the camera forward and back until the frog is in focus (in your first pic the focus is well behind the frog). You might be better off aiming at something very contrasty that's about the same distance you want to be from the frog and half press to lock the focus at this distance, keep holding the shutter down then aim at the frog.
4. Use a tripod if possible, otherwise you might want to raise the ISO to 800 or above (your pics are at 400) for a faster shutter speed to help with camera shake
5. On camera flash off for sure when shooting through glass (you did this)

See also http://www.frogforum.net/general-dis...ps-tricks.html for more.

Sorry I can't offer any help on the more important frog health issues.