Worried about Bumblebee Walking Toad

[clownonfire]

Hi all,

I am concerned about my bumblebee walking toad.

I got her two months ago. When I first got her (I’m not even certain it’s a female), Gretel was fed pinheads, but larger pinheads. And she didn’t eat much, I think the pinheads were too big for her. I added flightless fruit flies and she’s been eating, and finally, gaining a bit of weight. She is about 7 months now.

Two weeks ago, we changed her terrarium, making it even more suitable for her (Seth’s article is THE bumblebee reference on the net, great job, Seth: http://www.frogforum.net/toad-care-a...-breeding.html). Humidity and temperature are all set using timers and meters.

Temp: daytime around 25/Nightime around 21.
Humidity: daytime around 70% / nighttime around 80%.

Now I’ve noticed that for the past week, she has been less active. She continues to be at her favourite places, she moves around 3 different places (she’s alone in a 10 gallon). But she doesn’t explore as much as when we first got her. She is eating less.

Her skin, eyes all seem alright. She is not bloated.

Is she finally calmer now that she isn’t starved?
Is she still just getting used to her new terrarium?
Could I have added too much fruit flies and it’s stressing her?

I’ll try and put pictures tonight, but it won’t be helpful as she looks as she always did. I know that they are somewhat active (she has been climbing too, which is also positive).

Thank you, I’ll take any input!

Eric

[clownonfire]

Bump.

[Ebony]

I'm sorry I can't help you with this Eric..Hopefully someone will have some ideas. Hope fully your frog is just getting use to the new surroundings.

[tylototriton]

I wish I could provide specific help, but i'll try to answer some of the questions you posed.
She may be calmer now, or more comfortable at least, I can't really say. However, it is unlikely that she is satiated and that is why she isn't eating. Frogs tend to just eat until there isn't food. Fruit flies probably aren't stressful. Crickets can most definitely be annoying, but I doubt your fruit flies will cause an annoyance. The most likely culprit is the terrarium environment change. Anytime you make a change, even if it is to a "better" environment, it can lead to stress or trigger behavioral changes. It may be helpful to know what the environment was like before the change?

Best,
Alex

[Leefrogs]

could be just plain old winter slow down. I think, frogs really feel those attic blasts, dispite our controled environment, it may be confusing to a frog to not match it's surroundings with instincts feelings. I thinkits just normal adjustment. Mine know when that blast is comming, they try to get in the tub right away instead of meandering around on those cold nights. And they do it right at lights out. They know the barometric pressure.

[clownonfire]

I wish I could provide specific help, but i'll try to answer some of the questions you posed.
She may be calmer now, or more comfortable at least, I can't really say. However, it is unlikely that she is satiated and that is why she isn't eating. Frogs tend to just eat until there isn't food. Fruit flies probably aren't stressful. Crickets can most definitely be annoying, but I doubt your fruit flies will cause an annoyance. The most likely culprit is the terrarium environment change. Anytime you make a change, even if it is to a "better" environment, it can lead to stress or trigger behavioral changes. It may be helpful to know what the environment was like before the change?

Best,
Alex

Thank you Alex. For the satiated part, it makes sense. I know my frogs are relentlessly hunting their food down.

She seems to be more active today. It might just be me too... The R. ventrimaculata are just so active that anything in comparison seems dormant...

The old terrarium was similar, but without moss, and hydroballs. It was more of a layer of coconut husk, and she would always more only around her cocounut HUT. Now she has a cork bark that she likes to hide in, or climb on, a piece of malaysian wood which she also enjoys hiding under, and a large are where she walks around.

She has been eating this morning.

[Eric Walker]

Eric

these toads are no where near as active as some of the darts I have kept. Mine do like to climb but sometimes they stay there all day. of the 5 I have I can normally only see one or two out in the open. It also sounds like the humidity may be just a bit to high. I keep mine more around 60%. I dont mist often at all but I do put in a shallow wate dish for them every so often so they can splash around. I have never fed crickets to them. lots of flys, springs, and woodlice. I have some pretty plump females and the size difference is very noticable from male to female.
you said "she" is around 7 months? is someone up there breeding them and getting them out of the water? not many in the US yet, maby one or two with cb for sale.
these little guys seem to be pretty stress free IMO. even with a move to a new tank, I never noticed any difference in personality.

hope that helps a bit.

there was an incredable disscusion on dendroboard that seth joined in on that was pretty long but I cant seem to find it now it was not to long after the feb 2010 imports started to come in.

[clownonfire]

Eric

these toads are no where near as active as some of the darts I have kept. Mine do like to climb but sometimes they stay there all day. of the 5 I have I can normally only see one or two out in the open. It also sounds like the humidity may be just a bit to high. I keep mine more around 60%. I dont mist often at all but I do put in a shallow wate dish for them every so often so they can splash around. I have never fed crickets to them. lots of flys, springs, and woodlice. I have some pretty plump females and the size difference is very noticable from male to female.
you said "she" is around 7 months? is someone up there breeding them and getting them out of the water? not many in the US yet, maby one or two with cb for sale.
these little guys seem to be pretty stress free IMO. even with a move to a new tank, I never noticed any difference in personality.

hope that helps a bit.

there was an incredable disscusion on dendroboard that seth joined in on that was pretty long but I cant seem to find it now it was not to long after the feb 2010 imports started to come in.

Thank you Eric. I will bring down the humidity level. I will only mist once a day. And like you, I do keep a shallow water dish, which I've seen her enjoy a few times.

As for breeding, yes. There are breeders in Montreal. I've been asked a few times lately as I know they are pretty rare on the market. If you want to, I could always provide you with the breeder's information. He is attached to the Montreal Biodome.

I wish I could find that discussion. Before I got my BB, I must have read and re-read Seth's article, which as of today is still bookmarked.

[Eric Walker]

maby go to every other day with the misting depending on how much ventilation you have on the viv. I too must have read seths articale maby a half a dozen times.
If I come accross that thread I will send it to you for sure.
I can only imagine that it will not be long before a few others have success here with them. there seems to be quite a few experienced frog keepers in the US working with them now. One in particular has had quite a few eggs go to tad stage but has had problems with the tads dieing off in bulk.

[MikeTe]

Hi, Eric.

Can you give us an update about your BBTs? There's some good info out there, just not a lot of it.

I recently acquired 3 from Little Ray's in Ottawa, who'd had them for the past year. I'd been in a few times, getting supplies for my kids's new geckos, and each time took a look around. The BBTs would come out of their hide to see who was sticking their face in front of their tank; they're curious! I was won over after the second visit and decided to buy them.

Ray's only has "adoptions" (rescues and so on) and has a policy that you must show proof of being prepared to adopt. It was suggested that I could bring back a photo of the terrarium, etc. as proof, but I was aware of the policy and said, "I brought my set-up with me, in the back of the van, with the heating up to the correct levels, something to eat, some water...." They were surprised, took a look, couldn't find any fault and agreed. Then, as we went to get the toads, I saw that there were three; I'd thought there were only two. I couldn't leave one there all alone, so bought all three.

1 male and 2 females I think, judging by the sizes. So, in keeping with their (possibly) Argentine roots, Miguelito, Susanita and, of course, Mafalda.

The male and one female come out every morning (still curious, not afraid) and hunt down their pinheads quite efficiently, but the other female remains in the hide, under the moss, not sure if she's eating or not (the crickets do wander into the hide).

My temps seem to stay around 20 to 22 C and humidity around 80%.

TIA!

Mike T.
Ottawa.

[clownonfire]

Mike, congratulations. I still think that BBWT are underrated. They are stunning, intriguing.

Mine is doing fine. I cut down on the humidity and that really did the trick. I keep the humidity around 60%. I see her once in awhile in the water dish (just enough water for her to sink in). She has lots of plants and bark to hide, and we'll see her stroll regularly. She is also a voracious eater.

I'm curious about the adoption place in Ottawa. I'll be there this weekend, and I might stop, just out of curiosity, not that I can afford right now more frogs.

Don't hesitate if you have questions on them. The article by Seth on the left is the reference.

And when you have pics, post them here!

Eric

[MikeTe]

Thanks for the reply, Eric.

Little Ray's is located at the south border of Ottawa on Bank st. They're mainly a reptile "zoo", doing the usual birthday parties, etc. They are very good at education on the subject of reptiles and amphibs, very professional and very fussy about the care of their animals and those they let go to new owners.

Here is their website:

Ottawa Reptile Zoo | Birthday Party Ottawa | Ottawa Summer Camps

They do have three Phyllobates terribilis in the store section, not for sale at this time (not sure if they ever will be; too cool to let go, I'd think)

Mike T.

[jkooiman]

[IMG][/IMG]
this is what a female, maybe gravid, should look like. If they are "shiny" looking, then they aren'y happy/healthy. They should look velvety and fat. Thanks! JVK

[Eric Walker]

Eric- glad to hear the lower humidity helped.

jesse- great shot of a FAT female, can you get one with a male right next to her for some size references for everyone. I will try when i take mine out for a revamp of their cage.

I have to say though, when my toads are about to shed they become very glossy, shinny black( way different than the typical flat balck ) and their bumps on the skin become way more visable. only at times of shedding do they do this though. The first time it happened I was freeked and had to ask seth if that was normal.

[stolenheron]

I realize this is an OLD thread but I found it very helpful. I'm gonna try dropping my humidity down today before I try dumping in some WC fruit flies.