Red Eye Tree Frog sick?

[ladybug]

Hi, I've just joined the forum today. I have a red eyed tree frog that is still a juvenile. I've had him a little over two months. Everything seemed fine with him until last few days. He looked a little strange to me (sitting in a weird position on water bowl) the other night and his color was a deeper purple than what I've seen before. Also, he has been awake more during the day than I'm used to seeing. before last couple of days, as soon as I turn lights on in the morning, he finds a spot and curls up to sleep through the day. now he is staying up and moving around for a few hours after the lights are on. Because he is still small and there are larger frogs and anoles in the terrarium, I have him in a smaller container within the big terrarium so I can tell when he eats and he still has same environmental conditions as the rest of the terrarium. Is his behavior a sign of him being sick? And what can I do if he is... I don't want to lose - he's sooo cool!

[Kisa]

Is he in the tank with other frogs that aren't in his species? It is a general rule of thumb when raising frogs not to mix species, different frogs have different toxins in their skins and can be counteractive to each other, causing illness or even death.

I don't know what could be wrong with your frog, but it might be that he has developed an illness due to rubbing up against another frog, touching a spot where that frog left residue from the skin etc. I would separate all different species from each other right away, for good. I'm not sure about keeping anoles with frogs, but I assume this isn't a good idea either, though I have seen some pet stores do this.

Other than this it would be helpful if you could post temperature, humidity, tank size and other animals you've mixed him with. Also you could post what you're feeding him, whether you dust the crickets with vitamin supplements, the kind of substrate you're using and what types of plants you have in the tank to further help others diagnose your frog's problem. This could be a simple environmental/husbandry issue.

Sorry I couldn't be of more use, but please for the sake of your frogs, separate any species that aren't the same and put them into different tanks. You could loose your entire collection by doing this, some people call is "slow poisoning".

[ladybug]

thank you Kisa - Here is a photo of the whole setup. The red eye tree frog is currently in the smaller container with the blue top. He is completely separate from the rest of the terrarium so there is no possibility that he was touched by another frog... the substrate is organic soil with no additives, frog moss and a couple of live plants usually sold for use in aquariums but I was told they would survive in the terrarium. I've had those plants there for 2 months and he is always on them. I have reviewed several lists of plants that could be poisonous and this in not one of them. Day temp between 75 and 80, night time drops to about 64-66. I do not measure humidity because I was told to just mist when the tank appears dry which I do a couple of times a day.

the large terrarium is 37 gallons. I'm guessing the smaller one is 1 or 1.5 gallons. he eats pinheads that are dusted with vitamin D/calcium. He is the only one I feed every day because of his size.

As far as mixing of the species, has anyone else of here attempted to do community terrarriums? I have read a ton of articles online and even a few books before setting this up that recommended different species that thrive together - best combo seemed to be anoles and tree frogs...Basically everything I read said that as long as there is enough space for everyone to have thier own niche, they would fine together.

thanks for any feedback!

[amisbeef]

Niche is completely the wrong definition to look for. Niche determines the ecological postition the species plays within the ecosysten and as anoles and these tree frogs have the same nocturnal waking hours they occur in the same niche.

The small terrarium withing the larger terrarium is less than 1 to 1.5 gallons and would surely be very stressful for your red eyes tree frog, possible resulting in more stressful caused behaviour from your tree frog.


Kisa is 100% right, all species, even species as unthreatening as anoles should be spereated from frogs, as in the wild, frogs natural predators are lizads, Anoles in captivity are harmless to tree frogs, but believe or not, tree frogs don't know this! Even with enough space, these two species do not thrive together - red eyed tree frogs and anoles originally come from different areas so are not used to living together. In the wild, red eyed tree frogs are prone to being eaten by lizards, so are scared of them - ..how long have they been kept together?

Behaviour like position and colour can just be down to mood in frogs, and isn't a reliable source to go on for frog behaviour , so until behaviour gets really strange in frogs, it is nothing to get concerned about. It is anthropomorphic to get concerned over behaviour so until your frog is obcenely different to usual, it is not enough to panic!

hope I can help!

[ladybug]

I actually got one anole and the red eye tree frog on the same day so for over two months they have been in the same terrrarium, but still separate where the anoles cannot get to the red eye tree frog. but it sounds like I need to set up a separate terrarium for the anoles or frog... thank you for the input!

[Kisa]

Did you get these animals from a chain pet store? I'm sorry to say that those are not the most reliable place to get pets or information about them. I saw a small green tree frog in a tank with over 20 anoles, and they seemed alright, but you can never know what kind of fears your frog can have regarding other species inside the terrarium. I bought my WTF from a Petsmart in my area and he came with an infection, weakened immune system, and was grossly overweight. All the while the pet store thought they were taking good care of him.

So you only have the one frog and several anoles inside one terrarium? If there are no other frogs I don't think it could have been poisoned but I do think that it could be under stress from sharing a terrarium with other animals, like anoles.

I'm sorry if my messages seem harsh, I don't want to come that way, I just know that community terrariums can be more harmful to animals, frogs especially, and can lead to death. I know about your pets and want to keep them safe, and I want that for you, which is why I am so adamant about separating your species.

I also agree with Amisbeef that the small tank inside the larger viv could be stressing your frog even more, for now I would try to get a larger glass tank (5 gallons or so) and separate him/her/it completely from the rest of the terrarium if you can. If you do this and your frog begins to show improvement, it is a safe bet that it was being frightened by the other animals in the viv and that has lead to a downfall.

I'm sorry that your frog is sick and I hope our suggestions can help, but Amisbeef is right about panicking as well, this could just be a mood change in your frog and he could go back to rights as quickly as he went bad. Just monitor him closely and make sure he is eating regularly so he receives the proper vitamins.

I'm rooting for your little guy, hoping it's just some sort of fear or depression he's going through, I hope he gets better soon. ><

[ladybug]

Hi again Kisa! I did not buy any of my animals from chain pet stores. I read many warnings about that before I got any of them. They are all from local/family owned places who said the animals came from local breeders. I have since learned that likely is not the case for the anoles, since they tend to be wild caught in Florida and shipped all over not my favorite situation but I already have them and will keep them as long as they live...

I am looking into a larger/separate terrarium for the red eye tree frog. I've seen a few setups I like. and I also think Amisbeef was right about my panicking...the frog seems back to himself completely today and ate his crickets last night.

and I don't think you sound harsh I only wish I had joined this forum before I started the terrarium to begin with and I would probably have had a lot more knowledge, but have learned a lot so far and will continue to visit to learn more!

Thanks again!

[Kisa]

That's good I'm glad to hear that you're thinking about looking into separate housing for him, you never know what could happen housing more than one animal together, even if they ARE the same species. I'm glad that you're taking our advice to heart, I was worried there for a moment that you were offended somehow by what I was saying and wanted to assure you that I wasn't trying to be mean to you or anything. Thank you for understanding my tone and concern, sometimes things like that get lost in translation over the internet.

This forum is really great if you're in a bind and need some opinions, I know everyone here helped me when my WTF was sick and I am very grateful for everyone who took the time out to give me advice and suggestions and root for my little guy when he was suffering. This is a great place for amphibian and reptile owners to come together an share their feelings. I know I haven't been on here long, but I've really grown to trust and respect a lot of the people on this forum for being so nice and helpful. We could definitely do ALOT worse. XD

If there's ever a question you have you can also use the forum's search function to see if anyone has had a similar problem. And, if another of your animals seems to not be doing 100%, you can check out the frog first aid article to the left, it was written by Paul Rust who's really knowledgeable and friendly and has a lot of good information for quick fixes or remedies for common illness.

You're welcome! And thanks for letting me blather on, I was worried that your frog could be really sick but now that I hear he's doing better we can all relax a little. Just continue to monitor him for the next few days and I'm sure everything'll be just fine. ^ ^