White's Tree Frog concerns, please help.

[Kisa]

I've had my WTF for almost two weeks now (I know that's not long enough for him to get used to his new environment and all, but I'm a new owner and want to make sure he's healthy!) and just recently I've noticed some unusual behavior related to his eyes. Most of the time he'll sleep with one eye either all the way open or only half closed, while the other seems to be fully closed. Sometimes his eyes will even pop open while he's still asleep! (I assume he's still asleep because his pupils are unresponsive to light) but he seems to see fine when I feed him or when he moves about the cage (this I am assuming because when I get up in the middle of the night I'll find him sitting in his water bowl, I don't even actually SEE him walk into it). Also I've noticed that he has been sleeping for almost 24 hours, all night and all day. I know he is still adjusting to his new home and to me, but I was wondering if any of this should be cause for concern. I haven't' fed him yet today, but the last time I did he ate like normal so their are no problems with his appetite as of yet, I'll post back if I notice he isn't interested in food.

Also, I keep the tank at between 70 and 82 degrees F (lower at night, higher in the day), I have two heat lamps on during the day and one infrared light and heating pad on at night (heating pad only if it is especially cold at night), the humidity always stays between 40 and 70% and I change his water daily. Because I have two heat lamps and am afraid that he might dry out, I gently mist him directly if I notice the skin around his eyes or belly becoming particularly dry-looking. Oh, he is in a 10g tank with coconut fiber substrate and several climbing aparati. I plan on getting him a larger tank as soon as I have the money, but the compared to the size of the tank they were keeping him in at the pet store, I'd say he's in the lap of luxury right about now.

I would greatly appreciate any advice anyone could give me, I just want my little guy to be ok.

[Leefrogs]

Does he have a place to hide? If not get him a place if he wants to sleep there. Big leafy plant, log hide, a coconut hut. Maybe he's just paranoid cuz you're looking at him all the time. I've had mine 3 weeks and still don't have frount of cage uncovered. I get home at noon, both are beautiful green while sleeping. An hour later they're browner, so I know noise is disturbing their sleep. If I'm gone longer, they're still green when I get back. Then browner an hour later.

[Kisa]

Oh, I didn't realize that their color was an indicator of their mood, that's a good thing to know.

Yes, he has a place to hide, and he used it until I found another sort of stone bridge and put it in his cage (for extra climbing) and now he prefers to sleep on the bridge in plain sight, thought sometimes he will lay in a position where I can't see him from my bed, could this be on purpose?

I didn't know for a few days after I got him that covering the cage was a good idea and I didn't want to do it after he had already experienced living in his viv without covers cuz I thought it would freak him out so I've just left them uncovered.

I've noticed lately that he turns slightly green while sleeping, especially in the morning right before I wake up, so I assume it's because he is sleeping undisturbed, but if I start moving about in my room or go over to check on him he always looks a little browner. I didn't realize this was because I was disturbing him, I'll try to be quieter and stay away from his cage a little more.

Thank you for the information, it was actually really helpful. Someone told me a little while ago that it was safe to play music in my room while he was sleeping (at a low volume) because frogs have selective hearing, but I'm guessing now that that information is false?

I'll try to be quieter and worry a little less so I don't check on him as often. I want him to get a good day's sleep and be ready for his feeding and exercise in the evening. Thanks for the insight, it's nice to hear stuff from a fellow new frog owner.

[Leefrogs]

I'm sure the music reply was right on. Sometimes I leave the tv on to see if this affects their color. The tv only bothers them at night when they see the light glowing 30 feet away.
Although that seems to be changing, they now get up as soon as lights out. I'm glad u have a hide for him. Mine hide all day. Only be seen when it's time to eat.
So it's good u have the same experiance as me with them changing as soon as we get home. It seems no matter how quiet I am, they subconciously know I'm there, and turn browner. Maybe someday that will change, I hope. Although my place is a loft, they're out of the main area, but that doesn't seem to matter at this point. And where I got idea about the eye thing was a sleeping possition in psyche class called the cyclopse, where people sleep with one eye open. Now that's scarey!!!!

[passon13]

Oh, I didn't realize that their color was an indicator of their mood, that's a good thing to know.

from what i was told they change color based on their enviornment i.e temperature and humidity... not their mood, that would be cool though, like little mood ring frogs

[Kisa]

Oh, so playing music doesn't bother him then? He never seems to wake up fully when I play it, and I always have the T.V. at a low volume anyway so I don't think that bothers him. But I do agree with the idea that they subconsciously know we're here because the time he's the greenest is the time I'm asleep or not home. Although I've never seen him go all the way green, he usually stays brown on his back and gets a greenish tint around his face and legs.

He used to hide all day, until I got that dang bridge, now all he wants to do is sit on that and snooze, but that's because the bridge is closer to the heat lamps. XD;

I'm not sure if the light from the T.V.'s bothering him because of his tendency to sleep all night, but before he lived in a pet store so I'm sure all of this is a new experience for him. They didn't keep a T.V. in the back room at Petsmart. XD

I think once they get used to us our frogs will be happy when we're home! A lot of owners on this forum and others seem to have great friendships with their WTFs and I'm sure the same will come of ours once they realize we're here to love them and care for them and we're not predators. XD Bruce still won't let me hold him, he gets fussy and always wiggles out of my hand, but I hope someday I'll get to take him out for a little exercise every now and then.

You've had your frogs for a little longer than me, so I'm glad you can give me some insight into their behavior. And that's really interesting about the Cyclops thing, I've never heard of anything like that before but it certainly makes sense. If he's paranoid about me hanging around him I'm sure he's leaving one eye open to watch me and make sure I don't try anything. I just hope he gets over it someday and lets me coddle him all I want, he's my baby!

[Kisa]

from what i was told they change color based on their enviornment i.e temperature and humidity... not their mood, that would be cool though, like little mood ring frogs

Yes, I've heard the temperature/humidity theory as well, but the way my frog reacts is an indicator that it's related to his mood as well. I've also heard that the more green things you put in your viv, the more green your frog will be. All three of these theories seem like they're supported by strong evidence, so I don't know which one to believe. XD

That would be neat because they don't have really distinct facial expressions, so if they change color based on their mood it'd be easier to fit their needs.

[Leefrogs]

I have 2. Kermit is more green, lump more brown. Kermit was brown in store with the green lips and legs. When I got her home she was real green for a week or so. Now it's changing. At first I think she was just really happy to be warm, with a basking spot and big pool. So I don't know why she's browner now. I think it may be the water. So I'm going to change that. But she was like bright seafoam green, just beautiful. As I said I thong feed, and was trying to feed every-other-day, and the day I skipped it pissed kermit off so much the green lips and legs went totaly brown. And now its been 4 weeks and never seen her completely brown exept thst one time. So I don't skip, I just give em a treat every-other. Lump is turning more olive. Maybe to match viv. Such intelegent little beings, what a joy!!!

[kittiekuddles]

from what i was told they change color based on their enviornment i.e temperature and humidity... not their mood, that would be cool though, like little mood ring frogs

I think this is correct, because when i picked out my frogs in the petshop they were all brown with only one little one being green. I figured that was it they would be brown forever. Within minutes of placing them in my tank they all turned a bright green, i image my tank was warmer and more humid than the petshops.
They have never turned brown again, the only time i see them a slight turquoise/brown color is at night, i guess because of the temp drop.
As for noise, since day one my frogs have been in the basement with my son blasting his xbox games and talking loudly with other players...loud grenades go off, bombs, disco beats lol..the frogs have no change in color and dont care at all. They hunt during this and sleep just the same without a care in the world

[passon13]

my frog has been brown since i got hm. he is an american green tree frog. i wish he was green, i dont believe the theory of the more green the greener it will be. i have alot of green and he is still brown

[kittiekuddles]

my frog has been brown since i got hm. he is an american green tree frog. i wish he was green, i dont believe the theory of the more green the greener it will be. i have alot of green and he is still brown

i dont think it has to do with greenery either, it has to do with temp and humidity
unless he is just a brown variety?
i have whites tree frogs so i dont know about american green tree frogs

[Kisa]

I have 2. Kermit is more green, lump more brown. Kermit was brown in store with the green lips and legs. When I got her home she was real green for a week or so. Now it's changing. At first I think she was just really happy to be warm, with a basking spot and big pool. So I don't know why she's browner now. I think it may be the water. So I'm going to change that. But she was like bright seafoam green, just beautiful. As I said I thong feed, and was trying to feed every-other-day, and the day I skipped it pissed kermit off so much the green lips and legs went totaly brown. And now its been 4 weeks and never seen her completely brown exept thst one time. So I don't skip, I just give em a treat every-other. Lump is turning more olive. Maybe to match viv. Such intelegent little beings, what a joy!!!

They really are, your two sound really interesting! Bruce Campbell (I named him after the actor from Evil Dead) is my WTF, I wish I could get a more prolonged glimpse at his personality, he just spends all his time sleeping.

He's eating fine, every time I have to feed him in the evenings I wake him up with a spray from the water bottle and itf that doesn't work I stroke him gently until he opens his eyes. he's a very deep sleeper! Sometimes it freaks me out cuz I think he's dead! D:

He got up and moved around a few nights ago, he even climbed the glass and jumped across the viv from a rock to his favorite stone bridge perch, but since that night I have seen no movement other than when he shifts his position while sleeping. I can't imagine that bridge being very comfortable but I guess it suits his needs just fine.

But this sleeping thing is really starting to worry me. He just sleeps all day and after lights out continues right on snoozing, like I said the only time I see him awake is when he's taking a dip in his water dish, and even then sometimes he's sleeping! Could this be a sign of some kind of illness...? I know WTFs are known for their laziness, but this is different than him just sitting around, it can't be healthy for him to be sleeping 24 hours a day, can it? Does anyone have a similar experience, and if so should I worry?

[Kisa]

i dont think it has to do with greenery either, it has to do with temp and humidity
unless he is just a brown variety?
i have whites tree frogs so i dont know about american green tree frogs

I think all frogs are different.

My Bruce has experienced a wide range of temperature and humidity changes and combinations since I've brought him home (mostly due to a broken thermometer/hygrometer that I got with my kit :/) and all I've seen is a bit of color change on his legs and around his face, and that's only while he's in a deep slumber.

When I first set out to buy this type of frog I was really excited to bring home and bright green/blue baby frog that was lively and personable, but instead I got the exact opposite! I saw little Brucey sitting in a 5 gallon tank in the back of the pet shop, with nothing to climb and only a small hide for him to sleep in. He was surrounded by other reptiles and amphibians of all kinds, lots of snakes, cramped and lonely. I couldn't just leave him there! He was a light brown, fat, lazy, but the most adorable thing I have ever seen! I fell in love with him right away and brought him home. He might never turn all the way green (which is my favorite color) but I'll love him just the same. <3

[Leefrogs]

well I think I'm going to experiment a bit. I'm going to drop my humidity to 55/60 and see if kermit goes green again. Also been using spring water, going to treat it and wait and see. If he goes green, then I'm going to raise hum again. That way I know if it was water or the moisture. I miss the seafoam color. Also, I wanted to see if u all are gut loading crix, or using spray vitamins in the water, or both?? Just thinking if extra-extra vitamins might play on color. Thanks ladies

[kittiekuddles]

well I think I'm going to experiment a bit. I'm going to drop my humidity to 55/60 and see if kermit goes green again. Also been using spring water, going to treat it and wait and see. If he goes green, then I'm going to raise hum again. That way I know if it was water or the moisture. I miss the seafoam color. Also, I wanted to see if u all are gut loading crix, or using spray vitamins in the water, or both?? Just thinking if extra-extra vitamins might play on color. Thanks ladies

My humidity is 80% +
temp is 85 in the day, 73 at night
water bowl is tap water with reptile dechlor
dusted crickets only once since ive gotten them
I would imagine they need a more tropical environment? I mist their tank 5 times a week with RO water. tank is 90% covered glass with only a small portion in the back screened
like i said in the store they were brown..really brown, i thought they would stay that way. in nearly and instant they turned that seafoam green as soon as they landed in my setup. their skin is moist looking
i would look into increasing the humidity, not lowering it

[Kisa]

My humidity is 80% +
temp is 85 in the day, 73 at night
water bowl is tap water with reptile dechlor
dusted crickets only once since ive gotten them
I would imagine they need a more tropical environment? I mist their tank 5 times a week with RO water. tank is 90% covered glass with only a small portion in the back screened
like i said in the store they were brown..really brown, i thought they would stay that way. in nearly and instant they turned that seafoam green as soon as they landed in my setup. their skin is moist looking
i would look into increasing the humidity, not lowering it

How do you keep your humidity constant? Mine seems to drop steadily over the day and I have to keep misting to make sure it is high enough, I have two lamps and a heating pad that I stick to the side of my viv to keep the temperature up, it gets quite cold in my room during the winter.

Also, does anyone have thoughts about my Bruce sleeping through the night? I wake him up after lights out at 6.30 to feed him, he eats fine, even hunts, but just goes right back to sleep, even on nights I don't feed him. This seems very strange to me I need some advice, or at least an opinion or two please. Help would be GREATLY appreciated.

[Leefrogs]

as soon as I get to a real computer upload my picts. It's way tropical. 8 real plants, humidity is 70 day, 80 at night. One was green, and as I upped hum the last few weeks... Maybe it's changes from water? I had it tested at store for ph and amonia. I have nitrate kit, that comes back as clean. I don't expect lump to be green, he stayed brown, but I'd like one of the two to be vibrant. I don't know. Thanks for quick reply dear!! At this point it's probly easier to just to go up that extra 10% hum and hold it there. My viv is from 92, all glass, 4 can size vents that run a few inches from bottom and two bigger ones in glass lid. They don't make em like that anymore!!

[kittiekuddles]

How do you keep your humidity constant? Mine seems to drop steadily over the day and I have to keep misting to make sure it is high enough, I have two lamps and a heating pad that I stick to the side of my viv to keep the temperature up, it gets quite cold in my room during the winter.

Also, does anyone have thoughts about my Bruce sleeping through the night? I wake him up after lights out at 6.30 to feed him, he eats fine, even hunts, but just goes right back to sleep, even on nights I don't feed him. This seems very strange to me I need some advice, or at least an opinion or two please. Help would be GREATLY appreciated.

Get a piece of glass for the top...oh but what kind of a tank is this? a basic 10 gallon glass? or one of those repti cages? If its a standard 10g get a glass lid and just place that over your screened lid (if thats what you have)
i would imagine the heat lamps are drying things up quickly, you might be better of with a 75 or 100 watt standard bulb over a glass lid (with some space in between so its not a fire hazard)
id ditch the heating pad
whats the temp in your room? keep his enclosure away from the window, could cause drafts.
lastly, id kinda leave him alone, you might be bugging him too much, dont pick him up or touch him, and dont feed him by hand, just dump the crickets in their and let him do his thing.
their not an exciting pet, they dont do much..sleeping is what they do best i think lol
he may just be a happy brown. ive seen big chunky healthy frogs on youtube and a few were brown sitting right next to their tank mates which were green..go figure
ok wait, is that him in your avatar? hes obese lol...hes adorable and looks healthy, i wouldnt worry about him..hes probably so full and exhausted from over eating. you feed him daily? maybe just twice a week is sufficient

[Leefrogs]

kitty, hope u got that thanks. People seem not to hand them out too much, so I hope it ups your rep, u diserve it. Maybe I should put some live prey in there, I'm just so scared there going to eat some of that spagaham* moss. I can't wait for spring so I can get some real stuff in. Are u paranoid of the moss? Maybe mine gone brown from lack of thrill of a hunt. Good point honey!!!

[kittiekuddles]

kitty, hope u got that thanks. People seem not to hand them out too much, so I hope it ups your rep, u diserve it. Maybe I should put some live prey in there, I'm just so scared there going to eat some of that spagaham* moss. I can't wait for spring so I can get some real stuff in. Are u paranoid of the moss? Maybe mine gone brown from lack of thrill of a hunt. Good point honey!!!

thanks
i only have a small section of moss so i dont worry about it too much, the rest is soil with leaf litter
i hate crickets, like they totally freak me out. so before i feed the frogs i place the crickets (in the same bag they came in from the petshop) in the fridge for about 15 minutes so they get cold and cant move lol..i then quickly pour the cold crickets out into a reptile feeding dish. the crickets get warmed up right away and the frogs must know because they wake up and all hop to the dish.
the first time i got large crickets i made the mistake of dumping 30 crickets in their..it was horrible! the frogs couldnt eat that much and there were nasty crickets walking around for nearly a week before they were finally all eaten
I find the froggys to be quick learners, when all the crickets are gone i find the frogs hanging around near the empty food dish just waiting for me to dump more in lol
last night one was actually sitting in the empty dish, i felt bad because i had no crickets