Tadpoles, my have they grown!

[charlamanda]

Since I have taking the tadpoles in from the pool they have been growing fast. I now have 30 and most have doubled, tripled and even quadrupled their size. Here are a few pics from 10/21 and when I first took them in for comparison 10/13.
I was wondering if anyone has any suggestions what to put in the tank with them so they can climb when they grow their legs. None have any yet, but I am sure they will start very soon at this growth rate.
The first 3 pics are from 10/13 (21) and the rest are from 10/21 (30).
I am changing the water every other day and I don't treat it, since it's well water, I only let is sit for 24hr to bring it to room temperature. I am feeding them fish flakes I add water to and swirl prior to dumping into the tank so most of the flakes will sink to the bottom. I only feed them once a day, which seems to be enough. I don't have too much experience, since the last batch I left in the pool and only had to add water to the pool when it got too hot or evaporated, There was plenty of algae and leaves for them to eat.
Any advice or suggestions would be helpful.
Thanks.

[Greenlove]

Here's what I did when I rescued mine: The fish tank was empty when I did this (because I was afraid that I would crush them in the process, they are very fast swimmers). Anyways, I bought a twenty gallon tank and a large bag of aquarium gravel, I think it was called polished pebbles. I dumped the gravel in on one side of the tank until it was half way filled up, then sloped it kind of steep (but not too steep), your want them to be able to crawl up the hill of pebbles. The hill only took up maybe 1/3 of my tank. You'll notice (if you choose to do it this way), that the tadpoles like hanging out around the hill. I then filled up the tank with water until it was about 3/4 of an inch above the top of the hill of gravel. The tadpoles even like to go to the very top and sit, so I had to check every day that the water level was sufficient. I did not have any problems with this method. When they were ready, they just climbed up the hill and then up the glass. Hope this helps. Make sure to always wash the gravel first!

[charlamanda]

Sounds like a good idea. In the pool there is a dry patch, since I didn't level it too well, that is the same type of set up. They always seem to hang out right at the waters edge too. I have plenty of gravel from keeping fish so this will work nicely. Thanks.

[Rae]

Wow theres sooo many... keep the pics coming

[Kevin1]

what species is this?

[Greenlove]

Sounds like a good idea. In the pool there is a dry patch, since I didn't level it too well, that is the same type of set up. They always seem to hang out right at the waters edge too. I have plenty of gravel from keeping fish so this will work nicely. Thanks.

Your welcome.

[charlamanda]

They are Gray Tree Frogs, I took 14 more in yesterday. The pool is almost completely filled with leaves now, making it difficult for them to swim around. Most of them have congragated under the sides that are folded down over the water, but can still manage to get through it if they really want to. It's very warm out today and yesterday so they're easier to find and collect, much easier than it has been when it was colder....27'F colder!!! I was worried, but figured I few very cold night would be ok since they are so hardy, but too many or the water freezing solid would kill them, which is motivating me to find them. Unless I empty the entire pool out I won't find them all, but I am trying to get as many as possible. Now I have 44 so I will set up the big tank I have on standby, with water and gravel, for now, then once they leave the water, I'll set it up like I did for the adults, but with different substrate other then soil. Then I will feed and fatten them, than hibernate them until spring! Hopefully my plan works and they survive....so far so good! I'll keep posting the pics of their progress and transformation.

[charlamanda]

Update..I think I have most if not all of the tadpoles out of the pool. Last count is at 100, but yesterday when I changed their water I found one had died. This one was really, really small and another about the same size, never looked so good when I took them in. I think the other may have also died or is very close to it. The rest are looking really good though. I found a see through storage container that I am using for the bulk of them, I have the very small one and two others that are small in a separate container since I think they had been nipping at them. I have the largest ones, that should be getting legs soon, in the original container, which I am keeping an eye on so I can put in gravel for them to climb up on so they don't drown. So far I don't see any legs, but it's difficult to see if there are any under the skin.
I know many of you have cared for tadpoles so I have a few questions.
***I read that the water should be changed daily, but that seemed unnecessary, so I've been changing it every other day. It seems so stressful to them. The water still seems ok even then so I am wondering if I can go a little longer between changes?(I take a few out at a time, via a plastic cup, pouring out as much water as possible, then drop them into another container with clean water. I Once they are all out, I clean the container a fill it up with clean water and pour them into their container from the temporary one.) Does this sound ok or does anyone have any other or better suggestions?
***Has anyone had their tads nip other ones, or have had the larger ones pick on the smaller tadpoles?
***At what point should I be concerned with them drowning? When they start getting their legs or when they have their legs and are resorbing their tails?
***I have 23 in the original container, 12" x 6" with 5-6 inches of water, and 74 in the storage container 20+" x 15+" with 3-5 inches of water, is this enough room for them? Do I need to divide them up into another storage container I have on standby, it's only slightly smaller than the other, or do these containers I am using seem to have enough space for them? The 3 smaller ones have plenty of room in their container.
***If I sit quietly and listen they splash around from time to time, mostly the larger ones, is this a good sign or indicative of stress or over-crowding?
***When I disturb them they do swim around, some frantically, I keep them in my room in by private bathroom, where it's warmer and quite, so they are not disturbed as much, but I am concerned that they swim around their tanks so frantically looking through the side. Would it be better to cover the sides, like you would do for the adult frogs, to make them feel more secure and less stressed?
Thanks for the help and I will post some pics when I find where I put my camera!LOL

[charlamanda]

The other very small tad died last pm, but I am not surprised. Neither of the 2 that did die looked good from the get go. It's getting really cold at night, about 20' F, and the pool freezes. I still have been checking for more, but so far I haven't seen any in a few days. Anyone know how long they can survive in the pool with the temp down under freezing at PM, daytime between 40-50's?
Oh, my last count was wrong, I have 104 - the one that died = 103.
If anyone could try to hazzard a guess with my last posted questions I'd be very greatful, the last time I raised a batch of Gray Tree frog tadpoles they were in the pool and all I did was add water, so I am still figuring this out as I go. Any help would be greatly welcomed. Thanks.

[charlamanda]

BTW...Still can't find the camera!LOL I will search today so I can post a few pics of how much they've grown, it's incredible.

[Greenlove]

Okay, this is what i did with my tadpoles, I only had seventeen so it will be a little different because you have so many. I only changed the water when it was dirty, so if that meant 3 days or a week I just went with my instinct. If I remember correctly I would say I changed 3/4 of the water about once a week. My tadpoles were in a 20 gallon long with a third of that gravel as I mentioned in an earlier post. My suggestion is to put the gravel in there now, it won't hurt doing it before they get there legs and they like to hang out on and around the gravel. I have read that changing their water too often can be harmful, and not enough can cause a build up of an anti growth hormone (I do not know if this is true, it's just something I read when I was researching how to take care of Gray's). I therefor changed the water not too much and not too little. I used a clean styrofoam cup to take the water out of the tank and NEVER took the tadpoles out, as this would have caused them way more stress. Just change the water with them in there. Take out about 3/4 of the water, that should leave enough room for them to swim while your filling it back up. I used a small fish net to get all the poo from the bottom, this really helped. I think you can pick one up for a few dollars at any pet store or wal-mart. This is where the gravel comes in handy, because instead of pouring the water directly in the tank, you can pour it on the side of the tank (slowly) and it goes between the glass and the gravel. It won't disturb the tads this way. I have not had any of my tads nip at each other but the ones that I saw outside in my friends pond would occasionally dine on one of their siblings (it looked like it was dead or almost dead, so I can't say if they killed it or were just being opportunistic cannibals). As far as your concern about them drowning, put the gravel in like I mentioned before and you will not have to worry. Mine never came out of the water before all four legs were present. After you see all their legs, keep an eye on them. After they popped all four legs out, they would sit on top of the gravel just barely below the water and poke their heads out sometimes. This way I knew that even if they stayed in the water, they had the option of poking their heads out and breathing if they wanted to. Sometimes, even when I thought that they were going to come out I would check back an hour later and they had went to the bottom of the tank again----I thought "OH NO!! They are going to drown!" But they never did because I had gravel in there. They eventually climbed back up when they were ready and climbed up the glass. I never had any of mine splash around like you mentioned, so I can't say if that is good or bad. I don't know what the correct size of tank is for keeping tadpoles but mine had more than enough room in my twenty gallon. I wouldn't worry about covering the sides. Mine were not covered and the cats sat right next to the tank and pawed at the glass. Didn't seem to bother them at all. Oh, by the way, I had the same problem with my two little runts too. They were only half the size of the others and only lived for about a week in my tank. I don't know why they died but it was very sad. I thought they looked healthy but they just never seemed to grow and always stayed around the bottom of the tank. I hope this helped. I know how worried and frustrated a person can get when your trying to help animals that you have limited knowledge of. Ask me to take care of a dog, cat, or horse and I can do it blindfolded. Ask me to take care of a frog two months ago and I looked like this

[charlamanda]

Thank you very much, I really appreciate the help and time it took to write all the info. On Friday I found another tadpole in the pool so I am back up to 104. I found my camera so when I clean the tanks out today I am going to take a few good pics to post. I can't believe how big some of them have gotten. I noticed as they get larger they are swimming and splashing a lot more. I think it's all good and they are just simply having fun and exercising their new found talents!LOL I think I am going to buy another 10 gal for the larger tads and add the gravel, then as they leave the water I am going to put them in by back up 40 gal where I will keep them as froglets and fatten them up, until I hibernate them.
I have them in 3 separate containers based on size, this way, hopefully, the larger ones will not pick on or dominate the smaller ones. As they grow I move the individuals to the next size container and so on. So far none have their legs and I have taken a few of the largest ones out into a cup with a small amount of water to take a good look at them. I am unable to see and legs under the skin, but the ?"spiracle" on their left sides are so odd looking. ****Can anyone tell me for sure that this is the spiracle I am looking at?
Luckily I have a lot of stuff from when I kept fish, like fish food, nets, tanks and new and or clean gravel. I am running out of tanks though, so I will need to buy another. I saw a 10 gal at Walmart for only $13.00, not bad, but the hood is $23 or the wire mesh top is $17, which I'll need for the froglets.
Any other advice or info would be greatly appreciated and welcome.

[Greenlove]

Your welcome

[charlamanda]

Your welcome

I bought better food that doesn't breakdown as easily and will not foul the water nearly as much as the other I was using. This way, hopefully, I will not need to change the water as often. When I put them in the ten gal with the gravel I am windering whether I can use a filter rather than change the water.
****Has anyone used a filter for their tadpoles?
The largest ones are really getting big. I took one out in a plastic cup and it just fit. From nose to tail tip it just managed to fit comfortably on the bottom of the cup, their bodies are larger than Baby and a few of the smallest froglets I have. I noticed ,as tadpoles, they are actually larger before they morph into froglets, the head of the tadpole minus the tails is larger than the froglets that is.
Here are a few pics of the larger tads. I placed 2 quaters and a penny under the temporary tank for size comparison.
Odd thing is when I was taking them out to clean their tank I always do a count. I thought there were 77 in the medium size tads tank, but this time I counted only 68! I either counted wrong the last time or several were eaten When the last 2 very small tads died I was able to find their bodies even after they were picked on by the others. I am fairly sure there would have been some "evidence" left behind if they had died, even if they were picked on as well, especially since they are/were so much larger than the 2 that had died. I clean the tanks pretty much every other day and check on the frequently, so I am sure I would have noticed. I must have done a lousy job at counting!LOL It's not an easy thing to do, counting very active, swimming, tadpoles! Whoopsies!
Pic #1-larger tads in temporary tank #2 & #3 are close ups of large tads all taken 11/7/10.
Pic #4 & #5 are the large tads in their tank taken on 10/27/10.
Pic #6 & #7 are both of the medium size tads, the bulk of the group,
#6(taken 11/1/10). in the temp tank and #7(taken 10/27/10) in their regular tank.