Question about Eco-Earth

[Raya]

Hi all!

In the African Bullfrog caresheet it says that eco earth doesn't have any beneficial bacteria and therefor can get sour.
Does this mean that it's not a good idea to get the tank ready (with eco earth as substrate) before your frog arrives?

Reason for me asking is that I've ordered a Bullfrog, but it's not certain when the place I ordered from can get one for me. Should I wait with setting up the tank?

[John911]

I might be wrong, but the bacteria might be more about breaking down the frogs waste, in any case you want to spot clean your frogs nasty dueces so they don't sit in it.

[Raya]

Aaah, I guess I can set up the tank completely and wait for my frog then.

[wesleybrouwer]

Before putting in frogs, put in some natural waste processors.
I always graft my soil with springtails and woodlice,
they will brake down the waste and fallen off leafs and stuff like that while being a constant foodsource for the frogs as well.

Best is when you set your tank up, add them into it and just let everything balance out before putting in frogs.
You will have the time to let mosses grow and let the plants attach nicely.
Checking and changing of the RV and temp. can be done in this period as well.
As soon as you feel everything settled it's time to get you're frogs in there.

Altough, i see that this is not a common method used around the US.
Where i'm from it's the guideline for every starter.
Once everything found it's balance you won't be in need of changing and cleaning substrates everytime, since by doing so you automaticaly you stress out the frogs as well.
Frogs will be happiest when left alone

[bshmerlie]

[QUOTE=wesleybrouwer;37291

Altough, i see that this is not a common method used around the US.
Where i'm from it's the guideline for every starter.
Once everything found )[/QUOTE]

That is the recommendation here in the US as well, just not everyone has the patience to wait before they get their frog. If you want to generalize...Americans are......rush, rush, rush.

[John911]

Springtails in a pixie frog set up? I understand using them in a planted terrarium with dart frogs where you're trying to make a little ecosystem, but if you're dealing with a huge frog that drops human size dueces why wouldn't you just change the substrate every month or so along with spot cleaning?

[wesleybrouwer]

@bhsmerlie : I always tought of Americans in the way of big, bigger, biggest, American Size


@John

i so envy you, must be wonderful to just have to drop that size everytime
No, really.
Why creating a little ecosystem of some sort for poison darts and not for treefrogs or toads?
I use this method in all of my tanks and you would be amazed what those critters can decompose over night.
I even use it in my tank with a giant chameleon in it,
only once in a while when i see some feces laying i pick them up but most of it is taken care of by the organisms and bugs.

In my opinion i see to much people around here handling their frogs,
a frog may look cute and doesn't seem to mind.
But by handling you cause stress on them, wich can be unhealthy to even deadly,
the PH of you're hands will iritate their sensitive skins.

If you need to handle them, wear gloves or use a lotion on you're hands,
this will prevent damage to the skin and minimize the risk of transfering diseases if any around,

Besides that, stress is number one killer.
When stressed out all kind of parasites and worms get a chance to boom since the defense mechanism will get a ditch.
This can make them sick or even kill them.

That's why a miniature ecosystem suits best.
Disturb them as little as possible.
By using natural cleaners you just have to pick out some excessive droppings once in a while and keep you;re frogs as happy as possible.

It is also advisable to use live plants as well since they also take part in keeping the soil free of surplus nutritions developed by the decomposing of the feces.
Sice frogs will take them up trough their skins it's better to have it all nicely balanced in you're little biotope.

[Raya]

Springtails and woodlice you say? I'll look into that...

[wesleybrouwer]

Hi,

i saw you are from Sweden.
I think if you can't find any of the tropical woodlice you can check in Germany,
they ship troughout Europe and isn't that far away from you.

Reason for the tropical woodlice is that they have a much softer outside then the once we find outside.

[Greenlove]

Wesley: You should put lotion on your hands to handle your frog? I rarely need to pick up my frogs, but was wandering if it would be ok to use gloves? Never heard of lotion being ok. What kind of lotion and gloves do you use?

[wesleybrouwer]

Hi,

i am not sure how you guys call it,
but we call it (literarly translated) doctorsgloves.
My guess would be medical gloves or something?
Use the ones without the powder.

With a lotion you either have to use a PH neutral lotion, free of any perfumes or other nasty ingredients after desinfecting you're hands.

Another method is desinfecting and wetten you're hands before handling.

In my opinion, try to do it only when you realy need to.
And then my first choice would be desinfecting and then the gloves,
only downside is you got a lesser feel, altough the thin gloves will work just fine.
Especially when handling WC poison darts or tree frogs or toads that are able to produce venom, it is highly advisable to ALWAYS wear gloves.
You won't be the first to get where they got their names from.

Best way to get a hold of a frog will be to get it behind the forelimbs with youre thumb and middle finger,
index finger between the shoulder blades and get the rest of the hands around the backlegs, so to speak.
Sometimes they also use a method where they only get a hold of the backside of the frogs or get the frog between thumb and index finger somewhere around the shoulder blades, one on top and one at the bottom of the frog.
Purpose would be, preventing it to jump and hurt itself.
My choice would be depending on the size of the frogs.
You have to hold them firmly so they don't escape but don't squeeze them.

Another method i like to use is letting the frog just hop into a clean glass, plastic container or whatever, as long as it is clean.
This would be my top choice, if you need to get him out you can try and grab him in a right way without having to chase him down the enclosure.

But i just can't say it enough, frogs are to look at.
Not to pick them up every time you feel like.

[John911]

So what you're saying is...my pacman frogs don't enjoy me petting them?

[wesleybrouwer]

i am certain of that,
if you like an animal to pet.
Consider yourself changing to a cat or dog

[wesleybrouwer]

By the way, i think i get why you think he likes you doing it.
When you scratch his back he will look like he is offering it to you,
same with the head or something like that.

In fact, he is not showing you affection.
This is a defence mechanism used by different toads.
They possess glands that produce venom or excrete an irritating secretion.
By offering those glands to you, he tells you to **** off

If you don't believe me, taste you're finger afterwards.
Bitter isn't it

[Greenlove]

Wesley : EEEEWWWWW!!!!!!! LOL!!! How do you know it's bitter? Have you licked your finger after petting your frog!!!! Raya: Thank you for posting this question. I was wondering about the lack of beneficial bacteria too.

[wesleybrouwer]

Hahaha, no i don't use to taste my frogs and toads
Might be unwise in most cases.

The reason i know it is bitter, is that some fieldworkers "taste" if a frog is poisonous by putting the tip of the tongue against the back, at least for poison darts that is.
A tingling sensation and bitter taste will tell them they are
This is not without risk to them or the frogs.
The bitter taste is a result of how the poison is build up,
most of them are alkaloids, wich taste bitter.
The poison is not exactly to kill, but to imprint the bad taste and side effects into the mind of predators.
They will "teach" their youngs what to eat and what not.
Clever way of securing yourself from not being eaten,
even if a frog dies it helps out the rest of the species,
the predator will leave them alone after 1 encounter.

My parents own a dog, wich one time got a toad in it's mouth to play with.
They tought he was dying because he flipped out and began to develop heavy foaming from his mouth.
It didn't kill him, but from that day on, he is afraid of toads
And that is the purpose.

Altough there was a hype on licking a certain Bufo species for it's psychodelic secretion.
A human licking it will experience a trip like from a drug.
Yet again i have to say not to try it, if you are sensitive to it, it might end up rather nasty.

Around the world there are lots of aboriginals living around the founding places of poisonous frogs that discovered lots of uses to it.
Think of the Phyllobates species, the real poison dart frogs, whose venom is used to hunt animals.

Or another fantastic useage of the milky secretion of the Phyllomedusa bicolor.
There are tribes that discovered a sort of steroid use of it.
They extract the milky secretion and let it dry in a certain way.
After the completion, they use it for war or hunting parties.
They will mildly burn their skins, to a point it gets the irritating red spot, you get the idea i hope
Here they put on the edited secretion.

Results are:

Surpression of hunger, thirst, pain and exhaustion
while upgrading the sensitivity of the senses and physical strenght.

NOTE: DON'T TRY THIS YOURSELF
Like i said it is a traditional recipe, passed on from generation to generation.
It's like Coca Cola, you know it tastes, you know they make it, you can come close making it but it will be almost impossible to make an exact replica.
In this case you need to know what you are doing, and we dont't.
So just do not try it, it may be lethal.

Just to give an impression on the knowledge there is about the different poisons and hopefully to make clear that petting these animals can cause you harm.
Not to mention the delicate amphibian whose skin will easily harm.