New to owning White's Tree Frog, New to Forum!

[LindyHopp]

Hi everyone!

Alright. So let me introduce myself briefly before I go into questions that I hope you will all have wonderful answers to. My name's Linda, I own a 5 year old Mexican Red Rump Tarantula and a 12 year old Red Eared Slider that I have had since I was 11. Exotic animals are my passion on account of I am allergic to anything with fur. (Though I love all animals with fur, I just can't own any!) Anyway, I was looking to expand my happy little family and did research for a few months before I decided that I would love to own a White's Tree Frog. (2, actually.) I was going to order online, but I went to a local pet store and saw a beautiful green one that I fell in love with right away. I bought him on Wednesday and have now had little Apollo for a few days.

He stayed that bright green color until I got him home. He's been a dark brown ever since Wednesday and has not moved from the back corner of the tank. I know he must be moving around at night because his water bowl is dirty in the morning. He's eaten about 10 crickets since Wednesday but even at night he just doesn't seem very happy. I want him to feel content in his new home and I just want to make sure that this transition process is normal and that he isn't sick OR that I'm not doing anything wrong.

The temperature I currently have the tank at is around 80 during the day and 70-75 at night. The humidity ranges between 50-70%, depending on when I mist it. When I took a picture of him the first day, I noticed a weird kind of vein thing and I wanted to make sure it was normal since I hadn't noticed it in White's Tree Frog photos before.


I don't know if you see the little line thingy, kind of looks like a sore. But I might just be looking too much into it.


That's Apollo's favorite little spot to sit in. All day. Every day. I noticed that when he ate crickets he got some of the dirt in his mouth, so I covered it with moss.


I hope I'm not being too paranoid, but I just want to make sure all is well with him. I plan on getting another White's Tree Frog at a Reptile Show next week so he can have a friend. Any idea why he's not that pretty green? Is he depressed? Is it the environment? Too much humidity? Let me know!

Thank you guys so much! I appreciate any feedback you can give me.

[1beataway]

Hi, and welcome.

That vein thing is a little weird. Maybe someone else has an answer.

They are nocturnal, so he is likely to stay in the same spot all day. Try to observe him at night. Sometimes mine will go to the exact same spot to sleep, but at night they are all over that tank. The brown color could be because of stress or because of something environmental. He may just need a few days to settle in.He's eating, so that's good. Are you finding any poop? Is he spending a lot of time in his water dish? Is he going for the crickets immediately?

I would lean more towards him needing to settle in, but I don't know about that vein thing.

[Kurt]

Hi it looks to be a fairly dark enclosure, with that in mind a lot of frogs will lighten and darken with their backgrounds. So biggie there. The "weird kind of vein thing", am I correct in assuming you are talking his back? If so that doesn't look normal at all. Of course it could be a bit of debris stuck to his back.

Welcome aboard.

[Crystal6]

Lets see if I can remember everything I want to say... Welcome to the forum! Congrats on your new frog. What size is his/her aquarium? (Sometimes frogs are discontent if their aquarium is too small even though the size requirement would be fine. I've heard of/seen them jump at the lid of the cage over and over if it is too small but if it isn't doing that it's probably not a big problem.)

Btw, frogs can take a while to adapt to their new homes. (Mine were very stressed out when I first bought them and get stressed out every time I change their cage or do something out of the norm.) Also this kind is nocturnal and doesn't move around very much in the day or even when it's bright in the room at night. (Or at least.. my 3 don't.)

I'm told color is based on mood. (I always thought it was temperature because mine turned green whenever I picked him up or warmed him up.) Again he might just be stressed out due to having a new home.

As for the vein thing, I'm not sure. Sometimes I see blue veins like that on my frogs but I don't think I've seen one that big. (someone else on this board should be able to help you though.)

[IgbyKibbits]

Yeah, I've definitely not seen that type of vein thing in all the WTF pics (or with my own). Your humidity/temperature seems to be in good range. It's great to hear that he's eaten so well since you purchased him. That's a pretty good sign, but I second Kurt in saying perhaps you need to bring him into a vet (usually a good idea with a new frog anyhow to check for parasites, etc.) if that is definitely not some debris on his back.

As far as color, it sounds like he's doing okay. I've heard temperature and humidity affect things as well, so unless he's turning a very very dark brown, I wouldn't worry. Give him some time to settle in, and keep us updated, especially with blue vein/the tank conditions if you have more questions.

Welcome to the forum, and happy to have a fellow WTF owner on board!

[LindyHopp]

Thank you guys so much! It is so nice to wake up to all these helpful comments.

I think I'm going to bring him to a vet once I get the second White's Tree Frog at the Reptile Expo, this way I don't have to go through stressing out these poor frogs twice. I took him out for a minute last night to get a closer look at the vein thing, it's kind of puffy...looks almost like it was a cut that healed? Could be a scar? It's definitely not a piece of debris. He also chirped when I picked him up. The second I touched his scar, though, he "peed"...so I felt really bad stressing him out so much. But then that worried me because he was okay if I touched other parts of him, but touching that spot caused him to shoot that water out of his butt. Hahaha, I admit it shocked me...even though I knew that at one point he would probably do that...Anywho! I definitely want to get it checked just in case.

The tank they had him in at the pet store was very tiny, not very tall or wide. It was lined with papertowel, had a stick in the middle and then a clump of moss on the side. I guess the reason he was so light and bright green is because his environment was very light. I have him in an 18x18x24 Exo-terra terrarium with coconut fiber substrate, some flat moss on top of that, and then I have a little bit of that looser moss on the sides. I have a couple of real plants and then I have those fake ones with the suction cups on the sides. I think it's super pretty and I hope he's enjoying it at night when I am sound asleep.

1beataway, to answer your questions: I am actually sitting next to his terrarium right now. I've seen him physically eat about 4 crickets so far and this is because he attacks them right away as soon as I let them loose inside the habitat. As of last night, he's eaten three more crickets. I put them in there before I went to sleep and..well...they're gone. I have seen/taken out...2 pieces of poo, but the others could be somewhere in the moss that I can't see. And he is definitely using his water dish...I filled it to the top last night and cleaned it out good. Right now, it's all dirty and the water is nearly all gone.

Okay. I'm feeling a bit better about this. Do you guys think adding another little guy this week is okay or do you feel I should check out the vein on his back first in case it is some sort of parasite? Thanks to IgbyKibbits, Kurt, and Crystal6 for your input. I appreciate the help so much!

[bshmerlie]

I think you can go ahead and get another frog because they will need to be in separate enclosures for 30 days anyways as a quarantine period. Get them both checked out and make sure everything is okay for awhile before they go in together. By the way it might also have just been a coincidence that he peed when you touched that spot on him. Hopefully it was just an old wound that healed over.

[LindyHopp]

Okay! I have another little tank set up for the new guy, so I'll keep him in there for awhile until everything is okay. I'm leaning towards it being an old wound that healed over...but it's better to be safe than sorry.

[LindyHopp]

Hey guys,

I wanted to post this as a bit of an update because so much as happened since I last posted.

Two weeks ago, I ordered a Blue Phase online and the site said it would be around 3 inches. Well....little Poseidon ended up being less than an inch big. He is SO tiny! Anyway, I put him in his temporary enclosure and as soon as I got him out of the box he was bright blue and very active. Within minutes of being in his new home, he ate 4 baby crickets. He eats every day, is super active at night, and I am so happy with him. Oh, and my he has GROWN in two weeks! (I was hesitant about the online thing, but he's doing great. I have to wait 'til he's a lot bigger to put him in his permanent terrarium.) He's so funny when he eats the crickets right off the tongs and grabs them with his hands and stuffs him in his face.

Here are some photos:




He's the complete opposite of Apollo...which has taken a turn for the worse, I fear.

As for Apollo, he stopped eating about a week and a half ago. He's still that same dark color and just refuses to eat. A cricket could go right in front of his face and he just ignores them. He stays on the ground, refuses to climb. He basically sits in the same spot during the day and then at night crawls over to his water bowl and sits there until about 9:30 in the morning. Then he crawls back to the back of the tank and the cycle continues. This would be fine if he was eating...but he's not. I did see him shedding twice, though. So I guess he's growing?

I went to a reptile expo on Sunday and talked to this guy there who said to put Apollo in a dish with warm water and put the dish under a heat lamp. Do you guys agree? He said he believes that he's constipated and the warm water will help. I wanted to know what your guys opinion is..I already took Apollo out and put him in a different/simple setup..just papertowels, little vines to climb, and a water dish.

I moved Apollo, cleaned out his terrarium and put my NEWEST addition that I found at the show, Aphrodite. I always planned on having three...so she is the final frog I will get and she's super cute. Again, right away she attacked those crickets, is climbing everywhere and is hunting like crazy tonight. Poseidon and Aphrodite are great..but Apollo is still in bad shape.
Here are some photos of Aphrodite:



Okay. Sorry for the long post. But yes..symptoms for Apollo: Hasn't eaten in over a week, refuses to climb. Please let me know what you think I should do. I want to take him to a vet, but that will be my last step. I want to see if there's anything I can do on my own first.

[IgbyKibbits]

Alright - first things first: is little Apollo quarantined!?!?! I know that you got your new little frogs at relatively the same time, but you need to be very VERY careful about cross-contamination! Especially since little Apollo is exhibiting some "sick" symptoms!

If I were you, I would (at the very least) separate Aphrodite and Poseidon into a separate quarantine (temp) tank - and let Apollo be in his own tank until you know that he is okay! Ideally, to be honest, I would have each of them in their own separate quarantine tank for thirty days prior to introduction to make sure each is healthy and happy. You don't want one sick froggy introducing that illness to the others. I can't quite tell from your posts if you've done this or not, but I would highly suggest it.

As far as little Apollo: I've never heard of just "warm water" helping a frog that's not eating. How long as he not been eating? How old is he? How big of crickets were you feeding him? When was the last time that you saw feces from little Apollo?

Those are the first questions that come to mind. It's true he could be impacted, but there are also other problems that could be in play, mainly parasites. Frankly, that's the first place I would I check.

In other words, my suggestion is as follows:

1. Quarantine (if you have not already) little Apollo from the rest of your bunch, to insure the lack of cross-contamination in case of bacterial/fungal disease. Make sure that you sterilize to prevent any cross-transfer (i.e. pour boiling water on temporary tank decorations to kill bacteria/fungus etc., and completely sanitize hands prior to spraying with frog-treated water...we use latex gloves that we wash with soap and then spray down, disposing with each handling of a different frog given that one is in quarantine)...What you are doing now is a good quarantine setup - "frog safe" watered down papertowels with a hiding spot/pond.

2. Locate a vet. It's a good bet, given the time that you've had little Apollo (from the posts I'm guessing two weeks?) that you'll need to contact a vet. Again, please clarify how long he has not been eating...Nevertheless, a fecal culture will be a good thing and a good place to start with a new froggy (especially one that is not eating)

I hope that helps!!!

[LindyHopp]

Yes, yes, yes! Apollo is quarantined. What I did was, I cleaned out his entire tank and put Aphrodite in there. Apollo is in a separate 10 gallon tank with a paper towel, stick thing to climb, and a water bowl. So every frog has its own tank at the moment. None of them have ever been together.

I have had Apollo for about 3 weeks. I'm not sure how old he is, but I would guess that he's a few months old because of his size. He has not eaten in 1 and a half weeks. And I had not seen any poo anywhere in the tank for about 2 weeks. I was feeding him just the normal large crickets that he was eating in the pet store.

Here's my update: Went to check on him this morning, he's in his little quarantine tank. First: he's green, which he hasn't been since I bought him. Second: THERE IS POO ON THE PAPER TOWEL. lolol I have never been so happy to see poo in my life. Third: I put a cricket in there to see if he would eat it...he didn't. The cricket is still in there, so he's still not eating. Fourth: He's sticking on the side of the glass which he hasn't done AT ALL since I bought him.

And, I actually found a vet at the reptile expo that is about 15 minutes away from me. So, my vet is located.

[LindyHopp]

Alright! So...took the plunge, spent 150 bucks, and got Apollo to the vet. He has red leg. I have to give him a shot every three days for two weeks. So far, he's had two doses and ate for the very first time today! Really excited he's doing better. The vet said the weird thing on his back is a scar, probably from when he was younger. He also said Apollo was sick when I bought him and the stress of moving probably awoke the infection.

I had no idea it cost so much to take a frog to the vet. I even called the 6 other exotic vets in my area. They all charge the same. Oh well. All part of being a pet owner!

Anyway! I just wanted to thank you all and give you this latest update on his situation.

[1beataway]

I'm sorry that little Apollo is sick! But now that you have the treatment, hopefully he'll make a speedy recovery. That's a lot of money, but I'm glad you spent it for him. You're a good frog owner.

[charlamanda]

Hello and welcome, I know it's a bit late, but I missed you somehow. I am on disability and have lots of time to kill and am on this site just about every morning for a few hours.
I am a fellow new Jerseian, I moved from Rutherford to Milford Pa and I miss NJ terribly.
Congrads on your new froggers and I am glad to hear Apollo has gotten treatment.
I am a new frog owner of Gray Tree froglets. They decided my pool, which had to be taken down 3 summers ago and is laying on the ground with several inches in it, was there favorate meet and greet and laid thousands of eggs. My entire yard was full of tiny froglets, that thankfully have mostly moved on and some moved in.
I brought 2 in that were very small and very thin, when the weather turned colder and rained for a week, and one ended up dying. The other froglet, I named Baby, was very dark at first almost black, but once he/she began to eat and adjust to it's new home has remained a beautiful green.

[charlamanda]

wooopsy...I posted that before I was finished.
Anyway, its been quite a ride with these guys, but they are wonderful little creatures and worth all the time, money and effort.
Now getting back to Apollo, since the frog had been ill from red leg prior to you buying him I'd march down to that pet store and in the nicest way possible and give them your vet bill for selling you an ill frog!!! When you purchase a pet from a pet store it is given that you are buying a healthy pet that has been checked by their vet routinely. If you buy one that does have health issues than they are responsible!!!! It's the law!!!
I bought my first puppy 16years ago, whom I still have, and he had an undecended testicle. This condition increases the risk for testiclular cancer and I had to have him fixed ASAP. The pet store was responsible to pay about 90% of the cost. I bought another dog from the shelter who had kennel cough and they too were responsable for most of the bill if not all of it, I can't remember I had her for 21 years and she was 6 when I adopted her, she was a peek-a-poo we named pookie, we called her Methusalah though since she was so old!
So my point is that the pet store you bought Apollo from should be responsable for the vet bill and the cost of the treatment.
I don't know how far you are from me , but if you are close I'd be willing to go with you to the pet store, I am a pro at this!!!LOL
Good luck and keep us updated on Apollo's recovery and post lots of pics

[LindyHopp]

That's crazy! I live in Wallington, 2 seconds from Rutherford. Small world!! If I had to leave NJ, I would be very sad. I've traveled all over the country, all over the world (even lived in Paris for a semester when I was in college) and cannot imagine my life anywhere else.

That being said, I think that finding eggs in your pool is the coolest thing ever! So glad you got to keep one and that they're happy and healthy.

[LindyHopp]

I just got the second part of your message. I plan on going to the petstore to let them know about Apollo. Idk..I feel like it is definitely their responsibility to ensure their customers get a healthy pet. By the time this is all over, it'll be over 200 dollars to get Apollo healthy again. I mean...I don't know about you, but 200 dollars is a lot of money..especially for a broke grad student.

[charlamanda]

I just got the second part of your message. I plan on going to the petstore to let them know about Apollo. I dont know..I feel like it is definitely their responsibility to ensure their customers get a healthy pet. By the time this is all over, it'll be over 200 dollars to get Apollo healthy again. I mean...I don't know about you, but 200 dollars is a lot of money..especially for a broke grad student.

$200 is a lot for anyone and being on disability it might as well be $2,000, What pet store did you use, if that's ok? I'd definately bring that bill to them, if they give you a hard time I have several friends and my ex-bf is an attorney, mention a law suit and they will take care of it. I am sure they know, or should know as pet store owners, that they ARE responsible for the health of the animals they sell!!! It's sad that many store owners do not abide by the law and don't routinely have their stock(animals) checked and treated by Vets. Many know very little about the pets they sell and care for them poorly. Gets me so pissed off!
Off Topic:OH, my ex-fiances brother owns or owned a pet store in Hasbrouck Heights, where I lived for several years and even coached 5th-6th grade cheerleading. I've been all over too, but mostly in Bergen county.
I went to H.S. in Wood-ridge, the ex thats a lawyer's brother is the mayor and a state senater for that area (district 6, I believe) and grew up in Carstadt so I am very familiar with Wallington, very small world!
Let me know what happens, I'll help out if I can. Bets of luck with your new group.
BTW...I have 10 in my 33gal and 2 small ones, including Baby, in a 3gal, lots of frogs and my pool is full of tadpoles again, which I am sure are more Gray Tree Frogs. I am going to speak to the Pa fish and Game commission to find out if legally I can give the tads away because without help they most likely will not survive the winter.

[LindyHopp]

Alrighty. I just got back from the pet store. I did NOT have a good experience.

I walked in and got some crickets, of course lol, and then asked the guy if I could speak to him about a recent pet purchase. I explained that I got Apollo less than a month ago, and that a few days after I got him he stopped eating. I told him I brought him to the vet and that he has red leg, and had it before I made my purchase. Basically, the guy told me that they do the best they can to check them out and make sure that they look good, but they have a 48 hour guarantee and that's it. He said that it was probably sick from the breeder and that it's not their fault and nothing can be done. Anyway, I asked to see a manager.

The manager was not nice. Basically, she said that the only thing they were going to do was make sure they didn't order from the same breeder again. I said that as a pet store, it is their responsibility to make sure they are selling healthy pets and that each animal receives proper veterinary care before it is put up for sale. She reiterated that they have a 48 hour guarantee and that I take the risk when I make the purchase. I told her that I'm not one of those people that goes after money, and that I really don't care about the money, but that it's the principle of it. She wrote down my name and said they're going to make sure they don't buy a frog from the same breeder again.

..so basically I got nowhere. Not even an apology. Not even an "I'm sorry you had to go through this." Heck, I really don't care about the money but they should feel SOME responsibility and at least offer me some store credit or free crickets for a year! lol Idk..I know if I owned the pet store, I would at least tell the person I was sorry they had to go through so much trouble...and to be put in the situation where either you take a pet to the vet or let it die. Seriously, it's an awful place to be in.

PS: I bought Apollo from PET GOODS in Paramus. I won't go there again. Is it really illegal to sell a sick frog though? I understand dogs and cats, but is the same guarantee in place for frogs?

Your NJ connections are crazy. Love it! I'm not sure about PA laws, but I dont' see why you wouldn't be able to give them away. It's gonna get cold fast...so hopefully you can get them good homes.

[charlamanda]

I am going to do some research on the company and write them a poison pen letter, they'll be banging down your door with apolgies when I get through with them! LOL
I'll get back to you....