Help with young leopord frog, please!

[Mattiez]

Hey everyone, I just wanted to give a little update. For a long while, I was pretty nervous about my little guy, since he'd just sit in the corner for hours when I was home, and I'd never see him. Now he is trained to greet me in the morning when he receives breakfast. I'd put new flies in each day when I wake up, before I leave for work (around 6:40am). Now, every time I wake up and open the blinds, he's sitting in the middle just waiting for the flies. He doesn't get too scared when I open the lid, and when I dump flies in he actually eats them in front of me. I think he's got a good appetite, as his little tummy is nice and robust. Tomorrow I plan on getting calcium powder, and start dusting his flies.

Right now I'm feeding pretty generously once every morning- is that fine for a young froglet? Also, how often should he be fed dusted flies?

[John]

That's good news Mattiez. I would feed him some tiny crickets too - fruit flies aren't the best growth food long-term. I would recommend dusting the flies for a young frog twice a week.

[Mattiez]

Alright, sounds good. I'll be on the look out at pet stores for some tiny crickets. So when I go to petco after work today, I should just get a standard reptile calcium powder? Or should I look for a multi-vitamin thing too? Thanks again for your constant help, John. Peter (the little guy's name) and I appreciate it greatly.

[John]

I would get both. For young frogs, at feeding time I get the fruit flies or whatever into a small plastic tub. I add a little bit of vitamin/mineral supplement and a little bit of calcium powder and then swirl the whole thing around until the flies are well coated. Then I add them to the tank of the young. Generally it's not the best idea of mix these two supplements but the young frogs are going to get so much in each bite that I don't find any problems. Mix the supplements at feeding time, don't store them mixed together.

[Mattiez]

I plan on dusting crickets for my fire belly as well. Since he's bigger, should I do one feeding session of calcium and a separate one for the minerals? Also, can you recommend a brand? I've seen people talk about specific ratios of ingredients to each other, should I be looking out for something in particular, or will it all be beneficial at this stage?

[John]

I know some people recommend one brand over the other and there is at least a grain of fact in some of their reasoning (calcium : phosphate ratios for example). However this is a great page by Melissa Kaplan on vitamin and mineral supplements sold for reptiles and amphibians: Vitamin and Mineral Supplementation for Herps

She talks about them in the context of iguanas (vegetarian lizards) but most of what she says very much applies to amphibians so give it a read.

[Mattiez]

I read that article, though at times I found it a little confusing. Now I'm worrying that they're going to die without UVB light! Anyway, I purchased T-rex 2:0 Calcium and D3 with no phosphorus.

I also purchased a T-rex brand tree frog vitamin/mineral/calcium/superfood dust. They had a big sale so I picked it up too, hoping that it would also be acceptable for my semi-aquatic frogs. I figured since reptile supplements are okay for frogs, that a tree frog supplement should also be okay for at least young, growing frogs of other species. I've yet to use that yet, as I'd like to run it by all of your more experienced opinions first .

When I get home tonight I'll post the full ingredient list, but in addition to a host a vitamins it also has a lot of natural nutritional sources like hempseed meal as well as bee pollen.

Again, I'll post the list and you guys can tell me what you think. If everyone thinks it's not a great idea, that's fine- it was only a couple of bucks, and i just figured it would be worth a try

Thanks again everyone for all your continuing help!

[John]

I think you'll be alright with that one, though I do believe it's not a good idea to buy just one product - calcium is supposedly not meant to be stored mixed with the other minerals and vitamins.

There is no scientific evidence that UV light is essential to most amphibians - in fact it seems to be detrimental to most. Some amphibians bask (such as Waxy Monkey Frogs) but most amphibians are nocturnal, so it seems unlikely they would require UV light! Though not specifically about frogs, this thread over at caudata.org is very good and does include frog references: UV lights in the care of caudates - Caudata.org Newt and Salamander Forum

[Mattiez]

Hey guys, so here's the ingredients list on t-rex repashy superfood tree frog dust that I've yet to use:

Calcium Carbonate, Vitamin Premix, Hempseed meal, Whey Protein isolate, defatted wheat germ meal, Brewer's Yeast, spirulina algae, honey powder, dicalcium phosphate, bee pollen, rosehips powder, haemotococcus algae, marigold extract, kelp meal, rosemary extract, yucca extract, natural mixed tocopherols (as a preservative), vitamin A acetate, vitamin D, dried aspergillus oryzae fermentation extract, dried aspergillus niger fermentation extract, dried lactobacillus fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium thermophilum fermentation product, dried bifidobacterium longum fermentation product, dried enterococcus faecium fermentation product and dried bacillus subtilis fermentation product.

Again, I know it says tree frogs, but if it's beneficial to them, I couldn't imagine it being anything other than good for my little guy, at least until he becomes an adult. Of course, maybe those ingredients aren't actually suitable for any frog, which is why I'm posting them for your opinions!

The one I have used is by the same brand and is called 2:0. Here's the list for that one:

Calcium Carbonate vitamin A, vitamin D, vitamin E, Menadione, Thiamine, Riboflavin, Pyridoxine, Vitamin b12, Vitamin C, Niacin, Pantothenic acid, folic acid, biotin, choline, dextrose.


Thinking about what has been said, I should probably buy one that is JUST calcium, so it's not mixed with and potentially de-activating the vitamins...

For now, he's just getting the 2:0, at least until we can make a decision about whether or not the 'superfood' would be beneficial, or just super junk. What do you guys think about that extensive ingredient list?

Again, I'm sorry to keep asking more and more stuff out of you guys, but due to his tiny size and young age I'd much rather be safe than forever sorry, and just don't want to do anything wrong, or potentially harmful.

Thanks again!

[John]

The first one seems a little too "health spa" for my liking but it certainly can't do any harm. The second one seems a little more traditional.

I think your reasoning is sound.

[Mattiez]

I had a very odd experience with him this weekend. When I woke up and checked on him saturday morning, I thought he had died. He was sitting in the water a little more submerged than usual (nose under too, usually he keeps that up). I stuck my finger in and touched him and he didn't move at all. Normally when a hand goes in his tank, he gets freaked out and jumps to the corner. I got very emotional and another family member touched him too, and also said they thought he was dead. After a couple mins when I regained partial emotional composure, I looked in and it appeared he had raised his nose up out of the water. We opened the tank to touch him again and this time before we could he rocketed out of the water, did a crazy bounce around the whole tank before going back to his usual ivy corner. He spent most of saturday in the corner, though I could tell he had been in both of his pools as there was fresh coco in them (I had changed his water after the incident). Sunday morning everything was back to normal. He was waiting for his fly breakfast and he ate them up in front of me. He was in and out of his pools all day. Today was absolutely normal again too. He was in the pool, then when I turned the lights on and approached the tank he moved to the apple over which I pour the flies, and proceeded to eat some in front of me again.

I have no clue as to what caused this bizarre behavior. Physically, he appears fine. No discolorations, swellings, sores or anything else of that nature. I did however notice that the AC was a little heavy that night, as I was chilly in my bed under a few sheets. At the lowest it probably dropped to 62, when normally it would be 68-71ish at night. Could this sudden decrease in temperature have caused him to get into a sluggish pseudo-hibernation mode for the night? Could he have just been scared and trying to hide under the shallow water that morning, and purposely didn't react to my touching for some reason?

I'm at a loss for what happened, but I'm less and less concerned as he's been acting completely fine after that one incident, and he appears physically sound.

Any theories/concerns?

[John]

Sounds like he was trying to make you think he wasn't food. I wouldn't worry about it.

[Mattiez]

Alright, I won't! Thanks John!

[Kurt]

I think what have happened here was he was asleep when you first touched him. Somewhere, I vaguely remember hearing that Ranids like leopards and American bullfrogs sleep with there eyes open. It also occurs to me that I have never seen any Rana or Lithobathes frogs with their eyes closed. Of course I could be talking out of my......

[Mattiez]

I think you may be right!
I just had no idea these guys could go into such a deep sleep like that!