Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

  1. #1
    Junior Member PhunkeyPhish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Member needs to set country!
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28

    Default Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    Hi,
    I have two eastern american toads that are approximately 6 years old. I raised them from wild caught tadpoles about 6 years ago. I have been feeding them red wiggler earth worms dusted with calcium powder and while they are still eating and have a voracious appetite, they are beginning to have a harder time eating and I suspect they have short tongue syndrome. I just bought some Rapashy multivitamin powder with vitamin A and should have that in about a week so will start alternating daily with that and calcium. As long as they are able to eat and I start supplementing should their symptoms resolve? How long do you think it will take to see resolution? Also, I am not sure if eastern american toads are large enough, but do you think they would be able to eat a pink mouse? I thought of supplementing once a month as I know mammalian prey has a lot more vitamins than insects and worms. Unfortunately, I think the third one I had that died about a year ago died due to hypovitaminosis A, but did not realize that was what was going on... hoping I can save these two before disease progresses too far.

    Thanks again,
    PhunkeyPhish

  2. # ADS
    Circuit advertisement
    Join Date
    Always
    Location
    Advertising world
    Posts
    Many
     

  3. #2
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,172

    Default Re: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    Quote Originally Posted by PhunkeyPhish View Post
    Hi,
    I have two eastern american toads that are approximately 6 years old. I raised them from wild caught tadpoles about 6 years ago. I have been feeding them red wiggler earth worms dusted with calcium powder and while they are still eating and have a voracious appetite, they are beginning to have a harder time eating and I suspect they have short tongue syndrome. I just bought some Rapashy multivitamin powder with vitamin A and should have that in about a week so will start alternating daily with that and calcium. As long as they are able to eat and I start supplementing should their symptoms resolve? How long do you think it will take to see resolution? Also, I am not sure if eastern american toads are large enough, but do you think they would be able to eat a pink mouse? I thought of supplementing once a month as I know mammalian prey has a lot more vitamins than insects and worms. Unfortunately, I think the third one I had that died about a year ago died due to hypovitaminosis A, but did not realize that was what was going on... hoping I can save these two before disease progresses too far.

    Thanks again,
    PhunkeyPhish
    No do not feed nice. They can eat it but also it can severely harm them. They cannot digest fur.

    What you could feed the toads is different crickets, dubia roaches, repti worms and waxworms.

    You should consult with a vet for the toads to confirm any health issues.

    As for the supplements I would suggest the Mazuri Gut load to give to the feeders which will help all around with your toads. You just feed it to the feeder insects and feed them to the toads. I'll post a picture of what the feeder looks like.

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

  4. #3
    Junior Member PhunkeyPhish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Member needs to set country!
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    Thanks for the reply. I will heed your advice and broaden their diet, I know I should have been doing that all along but fell into what was easy and what they ate the best. Do you have recommendations for good online vendors for the live food?

    As for having a vet assessment, I am a veterinarian, although am specialized in canine and feline internal medicine. However, having gone through veterinary school along with post doctoral training in specialty settings, I know very well the severe limitations of exotic veterinary medicine, especially with amphibians. The previous toad of mine was actually assessed by an exotics veterinarian (although little experience with toads) and I think misdiagnosed that toad. That being said, finding a qualified amphibian veterinarian is a challenge and would argue there are only a handful in the country and the majority of exotics medicine comes down to history and physical examination so think that with their history, the previous findings of the now deceased toad and the recent clinical signs of these two I have a strong suspicion of what is going on. My main question is, how often do you guys see these clinical signs resolve when they are fairly mild once vitamin supplementation and variation in diet is started?

    Thanks again,
    pp

  5. This member thanks PhunkeyPhish for this post:


  6. #4
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    PA
    Posts
    1,172

    Default Re: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    Quote Originally Posted by PhunkeyPhish View Post
    Thanks for the reply. I will heed your advice and broaden their diet, I know I should have been doing that all along but fell into what was easy and what they ate the best. Do you have recommendations for good online vendors for the live food?

    As for having a vet assessment, I am a veterinarian, although am specialized in canine and feline internal medicine. However, having gone through veterinary school along with post doctoral training in specialty settings, I know very well the severe limitations of exotic veterinary medicine, especially with amphibians. The previous toad of mine was actually assessed by an exotics veterinarian (although little experience with toads) and I think misdiagnosed that toad. That being said, finding a qualified amphibian veterinarian is a challenge and would argue there are only a handful in the country and the majority of exotics medicine comes down to history and physical examination so think that with their history, the previous findings of the now deceased toad and the recent clinical signs of these two I have a strong suspicion of what is going on. My main question is, how often do you guys see these clinical signs resolve when they are fairly mild once vitamin supplementation and variation in diet is started?

    Thanks again,
    pp
    That's ashame to hear that you think the vet misdiagnosed your toad. I would agree with you that native animals are very difficult for vets to be able to treat. Many go to school and work with exotic reptiles and amphibians. I am in driving distance (2hours) of my vet in Pittsburgh so if your from PA or far east Ohio it would probably be worth the trip. If you are not close to here then the best thing you can do is look near a larger city for an exotic vet because in the states the very educated vets seem to be in the bigger cities.

    As for a good place I would recommend Josh's Frogs as the top place. I do business with them often and I have a YouTube channel for my frogs and toads so when I made a video with their crickets in they actually commented on the video so they are very down to earth to take the time to read my email and comment on my video.

    Carolina Biological is also a good place to get feeders. I will be ordering from them over the summer.

    For the bigger crickets Petco or PetSmart would be good to get those crickets.

    The Mazuri Gut Load actually helped my toads with calcium deficiencies and their energy level came back as well as their color. I would strongly recommend it. Herpetologist Frank Indiviglio and my vet who is an Amphibians expert both recommend it. I am waiting for my vet to send me the study done so I can share it with the forum.

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk

  7. #5
    Moderator Lija's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Nationality
    [Canada]
    Location
    Alberta
    Posts
    4,467
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    PP - Hi, collegue
    Are you VIN member?
    Feel free to pm me
    Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!

  8. #6
    Junior Member PhunkeyPhish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Member needs to set country!
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    As an update. I have found quite a few papers about hypovitaminosis A in amphibians, as well as a treatment protocol using oral vitamin A supplementation daily for 2 weeks. I have started the treatment protocol and will give an update with how they respond. As I mentioned, they are still able to eat the worms well enough to keep weight stable and have some horned worms on the way. Hopefully they will respond with treatment and start being more efficient with eating and then I plan to add dubia roaches to their diet routinely. I have also ordered the Mazuri gut load, as the worms eat a powdered worm food and figure they will also likely eat the gut load. Thanks for the advice.

  9. #7
    Junior Member PhunkeyPhish's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2019
    Member needs to set country!
    Location
    USA
    Posts
    28

    Default Re: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    In case anyone is interested in some academic information on vitamin A supplementation I found during my research I have attached a link to a very good overview on amphibian vitamin A metabolism and a couple quotes from it that I found pertinent for my current situation:

    here is the article : https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4685470/

    Specifically, the whole-body vitamin A level of deficient African foam-nesting frogs (C. xeramplina) was not significantly increased by providing these animals with crickets powdered with a nutritional supplement understood to contain high amounts of vitamin A [Sim et al., 2010]. On the other hand, topical administration of a water-soluble emulsion of retinyl palmitate increased whole-body vitamin A levels by approximately four-fold [Sim et al., 2010].

    Importantly, the occurrence of short tongue syndrome has been linked to low tissues levels of vitamin A in Wyoming toads (B. baxteri), and an enriched diet containing high levels of vitamin A has been shown to resolve the feeding problems associated with short tongue syndrome in deficient frogs [Li et al., 2009; Pessier, 2013). Similarly, treatment with vitamin A was able to resolve swellings on the lower eyelids of vitamin A deficient frogs [Wright, 2006; Pessier, 2013].

  10. This member thanks PhunkeyPhish for this post:


  11. #8
    100+ Post Member DanDrobates's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Nationality
    [United States]
    Location
    New York
    Posts
    248
    Picture Albums: Member Photo Albums

    Default Re: Short tongue syndrome in eastern american toads:

    Excellent article. It’s nice to see some good science posted. Thank you for sharing.

  12. This member thanks DanDrobates for this post:


Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Wanted: Gulf Coast toads and Eastern American Toads
    By JButera in forum Wanted
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 28th, 2016, 12:50 AM
  2. Baby Pac with Short Tongue?
    By SwimminSteve in forum Pacman Frogs
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: August 22nd, 2014, 10:28 AM
  3. Possible short tongue syndrome
    By Locascio in forum African Bullfrogs
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: January 11th, 2013, 03:53 PM
  4. Keeping Wild Toads, Eastern American Toad?
    By pacman90 in forum Toads
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: September 22nd, 2012, 09:45 PM
  5. American Toads and Eastern Spadefoot
    By jelkins in forum Toads
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: May 22nd, 2009, 07:44 AM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •