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Thread: Recovery from MBD?

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    Default Recovery from MBD?

    Raised tadpoles from a drying up river to replace our pacific tree frogs ( we had some for 18 years). One tad turned out to be a toad. Mr Toad is about four months old. When i went to feed him one morning, he seemed dead (back legs stiff, stretched out, was under his hide). But he opened his eyes! Rushed him to exotics vet who put him on calcium gluconate oral and by injection. He had tremors which have gradually disappeared. Have been treating him for a month, with CA, vitamins and minerals, reptaboost, forced feedings, mineral water soaks, uv. Lives in a 10 gallon aquarium by himself. Temp 80-82, iverhead bulb. Very very friendly. At first was edematous, and couldnt move, but soon he defecated and has improved steadily. Problem is that the more active he gets, the more worried i am to leave him alone and i have to return to work soon. Occasionally he goes on his back and cant right himself, once or twice per week. He is chubby. One back leg/ foot is a little bowed and held next to his body but he burrows in ecoearth and kicks very strongly, straightening his legs and pulling them back in by himself. Propels himself forward readily but one front leg isnt quite right...he doesnt lift it enough when he walks. Have been doing gentle passive motion physical therapy exercises to try to get him to walk better but it is very slow. Do others have success with this? Are his defirmities permanent and nit likely to improve? Would really like to get him walking enough so he is safe and as happy as possible. He is an alert happy little guy. I feel terrible that he had MBD. His crickets were gut loaded but obviously that wasnt enough so now i am supplementing everyone (all frogs too) with dusted prey plus calcium in their water. He just loves being in a shaliow dish of water. He resists my putting 2 wk crickets and an occasional small phoenix worm or moth in his mouth but once the prey is in his mouth, he swallows happily. Defecates readily. Wants to walk around. Am worried because he doesnt yet feed himself. Should i let him get really hungry to see if he will eat? Should i ask the vet for xrays? He has improved greatly but is far from normal.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Mr Toad still improving very very slowly but still not feeding himself. Still getting calcium gluconate orally, uvb, soaks, gentle physical therapy.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Mr Toad is getting much more active. Tried to get out of his shallow water dish by himself but still not lifting one front leg high enough. Any suggestions? Am worried about leaving him alone when i have to go back to work. Occasionally he ends up upside down. To get him to eat independently, should i stop force feeding him and just let him get really hungry?

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Am still doing gentle physical therapy with Mr Toad. Today he got out of his water dish by himself! Is still not feeding himself yet. But he seems more active every day, although his gait is not normal. He loves burrowing in cocoearth. At night i put him in a dish with a moist paper napkin so he wont move around as much, because i am still afraid he will go upsude down.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Mr Toad still doing well although his gait is not typical. Decreased his prescribed oral calcium gluconate by half yesterday as recommended by the vet and am back to dusting his food with calcium and d3 supplements. He has his new uv lamp. Am worried about leaving him alone when i go back to work. He loves to rooch around and burrow in ecoearth but i hate to leave him alone in case he turns upsude down and cant right himself. He als usually has a midday soak to get the dirt off but still cant reliably get out of his water dish by himself. Would like to find better food for him than crickets. He is only a few months old so night crawlers and earthworms are too big. He doesnt care for phoenix worms. Am still having to force feed him. Ordered some vit A from Repashy but dont want to overdose him.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Although his gait is not normal, Mr Toad is still improving slowly. Is on the CA and vitamin dusting schedule posted on this site with a tiny portion of a calcium gluconate once per day ( about 1/4 of what he was initially given, used to get a drop twice per day). Is pushing himself upright again with hus front legs. Still not eating by himself. Gets in and out of his shallow water dupush by himself. Loves rooching in and burrowing in the dirt.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Still not eating by himself. I hate forcing him to eat. Got powdered Repashy vit A in the mail but have been afraid to give it to him. Any suggestions? Thank you.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Mr Toad pretty reliably is getting out of his water dish now. Very energetic, strong back legs, front legs slowly getting stronger. Still not eating by himself.

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by cwebster View Post
    Mr Toad pretty reliably is getting out of his water dish now. Very energetic, strong back legs, front legs slowly getting stronger. Still not eating by himself.
    I had a toad prolapse a month ago. It was fatal but I found a vet that is a specialist in herps and she said that this supplement is all you need to feed the insects and then to the amphibians. Remove back legs to help the toad because crickets are fast with them and the back legs don't digest well.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Ok, i purchased some Mazuri. Is it for gut loading immediately before feeding? It says not to use as a feeder food. Am still trying to get Mr Toad to feed himself (removed crickets hind legs but he still makes no attempt to catch them).

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by cwebster View Post
    Ok, i purchased some Mazuri. Is it for gut loading immediately before feeding? It says not to use as a feeder food. Am still trying to get Mr Toad to feed himself (removed crickets hind legs but he still makes no attempt to catch them).
    It is for feeding to the crickets or any insects. You can use it immediately. You can use UVB which will help the toad get nutrients like vitamin D3.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    https://atrium.lib.uoguelph.ca/xmlui...pdf?sequence=1 ok, I finished reading the study in this link. It’s the end all be all regarding gutloading. Enjoy

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Dan, very thorough study of gut loading diets for crickets. Some of the stuff went over my head. How can i tralslate it into how i feed my critters? Seems like calcium dusting still may be needed if calcium enhanced diets are not palatable to crickets or increase cricket mortality? The gutloading i have used ( usually Flukers grain and water bites) sadly didnt prevent MBD in Mr Toad. Will try the Mazuri next. Mr Toad continues to be very active ( despite abnormalities), sometimes flipping upside down. Not feeding himself yet. Have purchased a disposable feeding dish that he likes to burrow in ( filled with moist cocoearth) that has a rim that seems to decrease his ability to flip over. He still neglects to lift one front leg enough ( will work gently on this with him).

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    I'm not sure how long it will take me to read that but I can say I got my advice from a very reputable source. I also have noticed the massive increase in the animals that I have been feeding the insects too. I noticed a massive difference and feeding that gut loading. I have noticed a difference in using that within two weeks compared to using the supplements and dusting for over 5 years now.

    I'm not saying the old ways are not effective but what I have continued to find from this vet is that this gut load can really impact the lives of many amphibians.

    I'm feeding American Toads, Gray Tree Frogs, White's Tree Frogs, Squirrel Tree Frog and Southeastern Five Lined Skinks.



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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Will try the Mazuri. Am feeding a western toad ( with MBD), pacific tree frogs, whites tree frogs, fire bellies, an alligator lizard and an anole. Am jealous that you have skinks!

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Am worried about Mr Toad. Has reached maximum possible medical improvement i think from MBD, with some residual motor problems. Most worrisome is that he still wont feed himself. Am afraid of harming him with forced feedings. Any tips for getting him interested in catching his own food again? Have removed the back legs of crickets...he doesnt try to eat them. Offered phoenix worms...doesnt want them.

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by cwebster View Post
    Am worried about Mr Toad. Has reached maximum possible medical improvement i think from MBD, with some residual motor problems. Most worrisome is that he still wont feed himself. Am afraid of harming him with forced feedings. Any tips for getting him interested in catching his own food again? Have removed the back legs of crickets...he doesnt try to eat them. Offered phoenix worms...doesnt want them.
    You might have to force-feed soon. Sounds like a serious case if it won't take food.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    AAron (Larry Wardog), i am back to force feeding Mr Toad small crickets and phoenix worms. I just wush ge would feed himself...am so afraid i will hurt his mouth skin or jaw. Is failure to self feed something i can somehow remedy so he starts eating again? Is it physical or is he just institutionalized? Would love to get him self feeding or at least opening his mouth when he sees food.

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    Quote Originally Posted by cwebster View Post
    AAron (Larry Wardog), i am back to force feeding Mr Toad small crickets and phoenix worms. I just wush ge would feed himself...am so afraid i will hurt his mouth skin or jaw. Is failure to self feed something i can somehow remedy so he starts eating again? Is it physical or is he just institutionalized? Would love to get him self feeding or at least opening his mouth when he sees food.
    I do not like force-feeding either. I think if you have a vet you can ask the best way to do this but I believe once they won't take food it's getting critical for them. Now would be the best time to attempt force feeding. It might take some time to get the toad back to eating normal. It's not comfortable for the toad or keeper but for the toads survival it's important.

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    Default Re: Recovery from MBD?

    AAron, i have been force feeding Mr Toad now for over two month. He is alert and active but shows no desire to self feed. I open his mouth with a well filed fingernail or a soft plastic tiny spatula and stuff in a feeder, 3x per day, which he always swallows. He poops fine but never tries to catch his owbpn food. If i dont feed him he just gets skinny. Is getting a tiny drop of calcium gluconate each day rx from vet and his crickets are dusted ( every other day CA plus D. 3 or multivitamins). The crickets are Mazuri gut loaded. After i force feed him, i let him soak for an hour in a shallow dish of bottled mineral water under a UVB lamp. Then he gets to sort of burrow in moist cocoearth for most of the day. Occasionally he sheds his skin but doesnt eat it so i gently remove ut and he looks gorgeous then. I try to do gentle physical therapy a few times each day with him, passively moving his back and front legs which he always resists...he has gotten better from this i think. He still walks a little funny. His limbs are very strong. I just worry that he will never self feed and that i will harm his mouth skin ir jaw. When the MBD was bad his jaw was slack but now it is very hard to get his mouth open. I give him crickets (2 wk) with the back legs removed .( i hate doing that) but he never tries to catch them.

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