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Thread: New to the hobby.

  1. #21

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Dimensions above water for animals to move is 72"wide 42" tall and 21 in" deep

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  2. #22

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Some of the fam

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  3. #23

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Bonnie and Clyde

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  4. #24

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Really love how they go back to there exact sleeping spots every night

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  5. #25
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    What kind of insects are you stalking in your setup?

    I understand that's a big space but now that I see what gecko you mean I do not believe they are compatible. A Giant Day Gecko needs hot temperatures at the basking spot but also warmer then what a RETF would. The frogs will also wake up as they see movement and strike. I know from having toads and skinks together before the toads ate almost all the food. Even if I left a lot of crickets even of multiple species in the setup. They hunted isopods to extinction in the setup. Tree frogs that are larger are also a little more powerful so they would be able to catch more prey by overpowering it.

    The tree frog is from Central America and the gecko is from Madagascar. Depending on where you got them they may have been imported and could potentially be carrying something they can pass to one another that can cause an illness.

    The one thing I understand more then most on this forum when it comes to keeping mixed species setups is how behavior from animals is unpredictable. Just because you do not see the frogs in the day doesn't mean they aren't out when the geckos are. I've seen my amphibians wake up in the day and hunt just as much as at night given the motivation. The frogs will be active to hunt if there is prey and the geckos are at a disadvantage at keeping up with the tree frogs.

    My skinks we're slightly nervous of the toads. The only skink of 3 that would come out was the large male. So the female geckos would most likely be nervous of the frogs as well. If the geckos get frustrated or "accidentally" attack your frogs they could leave a devastating injury.

    The problem you might not be aware of is that all animals will explore their surroundings and if the frogs won't explore or the geckos won't then there is a possibility the temp and humidity are off. Also it limits their space in your setup. What's a 72 inch wide setup could be significantly smaller to one of the species which would limit them.

    So the frogs would have a big advantage in hunting and would intimidate the geckos but could also lose out on space. So it just sets up for disadvantages in many ways for these species.

    This usually takes months of research or years as well as experience and understanding each species so one doesn't rule the enclosure. I had to separate my toads and skinks so they both could be happy and healthy. I have years of experience owning and researching my animals and I still didn't know until they lived together what would happen. Animals have different personalities. It's a very difficult project and I applaud you for the big setup and for looking at some things before you did this but for these two species it's not a good fit.


    Why not keep large Snails and Millipedes with the geckos? You can house a lot of big inverts with geckos.


    I wish you luck and do not mean to be disrespectful. I hope you think of some of the questions I posed and take some time first to see if there are things you notice that I mentioned and you can always ask the tree frogs sub forum about their experience and care advice for the RETF. As I said before I own Whites, Gray, Squirrel and previously Green Tree Frogs I have no experience with yours. I read some on the forum and respect those who keep them they are beautiful frogs and very delicate.

    Good luck to whatever you decide. You can always message me or ask me questions if you want to. I have years of experience with mixed species. I can't promise you that I can help you setup an enclosure on the spot but can give you the advice and the literature as well as my experiences to get you started.

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  6. #26

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    I stock my system with crickets, dubias and 3 kinds of isopods. If I can stare at my system and not find a bug within the time it takes to scan left to right then the horde is running low. The idea of the system was to make a full ecosystem and I'm hoping that I've achieved that. Here is a days worth of data with my sensor's at the top front of the glass. This should shed some light on my parameters and remember this is at the highest level by the glass. More data will come from different levels after this graph has been completed. If I do my job right then the animals will stick to their normal behavior. Instead of telling me what they need you could've asked what I've given them. This is a show system that represents continent and not a small portion of a continent just like the way my frogs and lizards are in nature neither are endemic. I'm trying to think outside the box Larry and if my math is correct then I've created something unique and enjoyable for my family. To be honest I was hoping for more in depth Questions of my system instead of statements without the the data of my system. Anything is possible but the past 4 weeks with these animals have been a testament. Live long and prosper

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  7. #27
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyboy760 View Post
    I stock my system with crickets, dubias and 3 kinds of isopods. If I can stare at my system and not find a bug within the time it takes to scan left to right then the horde is running low. The idea of the system was to make a full ecosystem and I'm hoping that I've achieved that. Here is a days worth of data with my sensor's at the top front of the glass. This should shed some light on my parameters and remember this is at the highest level by the glass. More data will come from different levels after this graph has been completed. If I do my job right then the animals will stick to their normal behavior. Instead of telling me what they need you could've asked what I've given them. This is a show system that represents continent and not a small portion of a continent just like the way my frogs and lizards are in nature neither are endemic. I'm trying to think outside the box Larry and if my math is correct then I've created something unique and enjoyable for my family. To be honest I was hoping for more in depth Questions of my system instead of statements without the the data of my system. Anything is possible but the past 4 weeks with these animals have been a testament. Live long and prosper

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    The reason why I'm not asking you about your system is because that's the least of my worries. I have created living ecosystems able to replicate seasons and weather conditions so it's not as high tech as you think my light can create lightning. The Biopod is very cutting edge technology and so is the zoo Med Hygrotherm. It would be able to replicate the humidity and temperature your device does probably half the price. It's not about the device.

    Also crickets and isopods are used as well as earthworms and even millipedes however there are problems with adding roaches. If you would have researched a little more you would understand that roaches actually breed at the conditions of your tank. Roaches are more prolific then any other feeder to breed. This means the roaches could take over your ecosystem and you almost couldn't prevent them. The Dubia Roaches burrow so they would be able to avoid you. Also the adults will get bigger then your frogs and lizards can eat and they like I said would create the problem. You could have asked some great questions in the feeders section what is safe and okay to put in an ecosystem. There are some great threads there. I have learned and given some advice and experience I have as well. So the feeder aspect of your ecosystem is not necessarily beneficial for the inhabitants.

    I understand it's something you want to build as a family display but with research out there and from actual experience I have given you from toads and lizards I don't understand why you wouldn't have researched and thought about what I said. Your gecko is not compatible with your frogs and I'm not trying to criticize you but I do believe you skipped important steps just to build a setup that's setting up to become problematic in the future.

    I just wanted you to know and to try to help you out. Like I've tried to hint you at we have a lot of good quality information on the forms and people who are educated that can help you to succeed. If you would even research now while you have it you can still make necessary changes and keep your setup with one of the species.

    I mean you no harm and I want you to succeed I also want to help you to become better educated and more researched with your animals. I wish you the best honestly.

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  8. #28

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Just because you "hint" every post doesn't mean I have to abide by your"hints" again you dont know what my system is. Its hand made and my own design even down to my circulation design and costs less than the smallest biopod. This is my introduction area to what I've built and what I have. Your opinions have been noted Larry but I will continue to post my parameters and pictures of my build in "my" introduction to this forum. My system is not a single species system but you can call it a roach motel Larry..... I'll PM you when they take over.


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  9. #29
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyboy760 View Post
    Just because you "hint" every post doesn't mean I have to abide by your"hints" again you dont know what my system is. Its hand made and my own design even down to my circulation design and costs less than the smallest biopod. This is my introduction area to what I've built and what I have. Your opinions have been noted Larry but I will continue to post my parameters and pictures of my build in "my" introduction to this forum. My system is not a single species system but you can call it a roach motel Larry..... I'll PM you when they take over.


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    I understand and I have my own hand made systems as well and document them weekly. I don't brag about being cost efficient I post about doing it right and putting in the money needed for everything and the hard work it took to make it.

    I'm not telling you you have to follow my advice but as someone who's experienced with mixed species ecosystems I just thought you would be more interested in my advice but that's okay there's no need for you to pm me about your roaches. That's your fault and you'll have to figure things out when problems happen and maybe it will break your stubbornness to seek others but if not that's okay. I'm not to interested to see how someone who just looked up a couple articles will do with this.

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  10. #30

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    The reason why I'm not asking you about your system is because that's the least of my worries. I have created living ecosystems able to replicate seasons and weather conditions so it's not as high tech as you think my light can create lightning. The Biopod is very cutting edge technology and so is the zoo Med Hygrotherm. It would be able to replicate the humidity and temperature your device does probably half the price. It's not about the device.
    Your quote
    You brought up the cost I'm not bragging just stating facts.
    I love advice but after multiple messages of me saying I have 2 species in one system and you saying it wont work, where can it go from there. I stated what I'm trying to do not what you believe can't be done. You could've wished me the best and said, well if are going to keep them together look out for this or watch out for that but instead it was all about your experience and my inexperience. I really hope leave me alone. I'm not into one way of thinking Larry. I hope anyone reading this isn't jaded by Larry's comments. My goal is to create a system where two arboreal species (one nocturnal and the other diurnal) can thrive in a closed environment and I welcome all advice to help me achieve this goal. Live long and prosper!

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  11. #31
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Quote Originally Posted by dannyboy760 View Post
    The reason why I'm not asking you about your system is because that's the least of my worries. I have created living ecosystems able to replicate seasons and weather conditions so it's not as high tech as you think my light can create lightning. The Biopod is very cutting edge technology and so is the zoo Med Hygrotherm. It would be able to replicate the humidity and temperature your device does probably half the price. It's not about the device.
    Your quote
    You brought up the cost I'm not bragging just stating facts.
    I love advice but after multiple messages of me saying I have 2 species in one system and you saying it wont work, where can it go from there. I stated what I'm trying to do not what you believe can't be done. You could've wished me the best and said, well if are going to keep them together look out for this or watch out for that but instead it was all about your experience and my inexperience. I really hope leave me alone. I'm not into one way of thinking Larry. I hope anyone reading this isn't jaded by Larry's comments. My goal is to create a system where two arboreal species (one nocturnal and the other diurnal) can thrive in a closed environment and I welcome all advice to help me achieve this goal. Live long and prosper!

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    This will be my last comment since you are trying to make it seem that people should be offended by me. How could someone be upset where in almost all my responses I'm saying that you could have asked experimented keepers about your frogs, your setup and your feeders but you choose to ignore that and the part where I am telling you I'm not being disrespectful and negative.

    You had no response explaining how you came to the conclusion of keeping these two species except because you just wanted to do it. That comes off as a bit stubborn.

    I don't have one way of thinking I have same species and mixed species setups and you also put in the introduction part of the forum your enclosure so it would appear you are new to the hobby. This section has had people come through and others explain how things will not work and the newer people thanked them and either asked more questions or just did it anyways. Most of the time they opted out because of good explanation why their idea needed to be rethought a little bit more. I was encouraging you and saying you have a good idea but there were things I brought up that you got offended instead of explained so that maybe if there was miscommunication we could be on the same page. I was hoping you would explain more then get offended.

    I've already explained how amphibians will come out during the day and it can become unfavorable for the geckos if the frogs outcompete them for food. I don't say this to insult you I say this to share what others and myself have seen and heard. I'm sorry that you got offended but I do not appreciate the negative comments. I hope your project does well.

    Good luck.

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  12. #32

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    I understand that what I have undertaken is not advised or suggested by anyone or any organization but there are examples of larger systems that have achieved success with proper husbandry and addressing animal behaviors. This is my hope with diligence. Advice is wanted to make what I have work. I totally understand those who wouldn't want to undertake what I'm trying.

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  13. #33

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    Just got some new " broms" in and I was very happy to see that my RETF decided to stay the night[emoji16]. Also got some cool shot of one of them on the vines under "moonlight"
    Also added some Spanish moss to perimeter, misters and vines for a more natural look. Let me know if the spanish moss makes it look too crowded. I'm not a 100sold yet.

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  14. #34

    Default Re: New to the hobby.

    With the moss

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