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  1. #1
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    Hello everyone!
    This is the new thread for my Gray Tree Frogs and their enclosure the New PA Woods Vivarium.

    This will serve as a weekend update regularly as I talk about the lives of these frogs and I will also give updates to the brethren enclosures that make up the PA Woods Vivariums which are my 125 gallon Western PA Woods and Pine Creek PA Woods Vivariums. You will hear some updates as all of these animals and enclosures are interconnected being members of the same ecosystem of PA and the inhabitants will also have lived together at some point which truly does connect them.

    My goal is to use my knowledge of this species to inform, educate and interest you if you keep them or even if you don't. I will use my YouTube Channel, Facebook Page and my activity on the forums to inform and reach as many people as I can. I hope that you will join me and give me feedback and let me know how you feel about what's going on in with these amphibians. I value and enjoy your participation. I will have links of my YouTube Channel and Facebook Page as well as my care sheet of the Gray Tree Frogs and a link to join my community on YouTube!

    I hope you will enjoy this thread and will give me feedback as to what you are most interested to see with the progression of this thread!

    Make sure this Thanksgiving to checkout the new video coming out of the Tree Frogs Thanksgiving Battle as you the fans, followers and contributors will decide who wins the Gray Tree Frogs or their adversary the Whites Tree Frogs. Make sure to check in on Thanksgiving for the video!
    This Thanksgiving I hope you spend it with Family, Food, Football and Frogs!



    Facebook Page
    https://www.facebook.com/PAWoodsVivariums/

    YouTube Channel
    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC4n...r50aiDHpDE_CFg

    YouTube Community
    https://youtu.be/join/ct-VoEF2zN4FwM

    Gray Tree Frog Care Sheet
    https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?url...5&share_type=t


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  2. #2
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    The Thanksgiving video clips are being uploaded...

    The Thanksgiving video is being constructed and I can't wait to work on it! My goal is to finish early so I can try the new feature of premier on YouTube and try to get more people to watch it.

    I am looking at what plants, accessories and what enclosure these tree frogs will have. The fate of the new PA Woods Vivarium depends on it. I am looking to get the same light and fogger for all 3 enclosures for the PA Woods Vivariums so all the animals involved are getting the same treatment. I think I'll just stick to the English ivy and the Hydrangea plant. I'll get more ivy sometime. The enclosure has to fit in the place of the current one. I'm going to get a terrarium for the tree frogs. It will be 36 inches long and I am unsure after that. I will have more updates as we progress.

    The babies are still little but making steady progress. I'm going to try and feed them heavier to hopefully help them grow. I am very interested in seeing how Christian and Bane interact with their own kind and how they share the enclosure and food. I'm sure the relationship between Christian and Bane as well as the relationship of the baby tree frogs. This next video will reveal a lot more about the character of these tree frogs. I'm sure you will enjoy seeing them faceoff against the Whites Tree Frogs.

    In terms of who favored to win the battle the Dumpy Family is looked at as the favorite in a lot of the categories. It's going to be fun and hopefully can be something you look forward to this Thanksgiving. The results will have important implications for the future.

    Best Vivarium
    Better Hunter
    Most informative/educational
    Better Hunter
    Best Construction

    Who do you think will win the battle?

    How do you think Bane and Christian will react when the baby tree frogs finally meet them?

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  3. #3
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    I need your vote for the 3 major categories

    1)Better Hunter
    2)Best Vivarium
    3)most Informative/Educational

    Who is the VIP
    Most important frog to the video?

    https://youtu.be/qjZkOXR7EV4

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    Thanks to everyone who participated in the voting for the first Holiday Special! I am going to close the voting on Monday so this way I allow everybody some time to vote. I really appreciate the support I got from you all. I will announce the winner first on the Facebook Page and the YouTube Community then following in a few days the forums. I was very excited so many people gave quality input on every category. I hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving because my animals and I did.

    I think first the video was successful because between both enclosures there is depth in personality. You got to see Max attack me and my camera and Christian get hand fed and Bane show what it means to be stealthy. The baby gray tree frogs and Fin the Betta Fish were also both talked about positively which gave the surprise appearances another element to the video. From all the tree frogs and Fin they all played an important role and showed how interesting and incredible these species are.

    So since we had a good turnout I think we might have another video on the way. It will be the final Swarms Battle starring the Gray Tree Frogs Bane and Christian. You'll get to see them battle the Black Soldier Fly.

    More on the way for the Dumpy Family and the long awaited update and build for the Skink Dynasty. It really is their time as well as Chi Chi and Lolita the furry friends. The exotic animals will dominate the winter.

    I'm beginning the update process for the toads. I have the plexiglass lid and I'm getting it put on. I have more understanding what updates I'll be doing.

    But back to the Gray Tree Frogs as this is their thread. They are doing great and have been hunting a fly/wasp like insect that I have been documenting. I got probably the most incredible footage of the Gray Tree Frogs hunting and it'll be sure to thrill you. Bane again shows his dominance and hunting prowess. Not taking anything away from Christian he has a key part in the video. He shows the camera how Gray Tree Frogs hunt flying insects in the wild. This scene is truly incredible as he shows the ability of decision making and follows up what was stated about how good the Gray Tree Frogs are at hunting. I'm going to get them a little fogger and get some more English Ivy. I think I'm going to give them plants that I've already used and know will work so that way plants don't die and they have nothing. I'll be introducing insects into their enclosure too. The Gray Tree Frogs will like I said be included this winter so get ready to see the story of the baby tree frogs as we follow them on their way into the New PA Woods Vivarium.

    Have you ever used the Exo Terra Fogger?

    What's one thing you want to see in a future video for the Gray Tree Frogs?

    Do you like their cover photo?

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    I am actually kicking around the idea of getting a Biopod for the New PA Woods Vivarium. It's an expensive setup I get it but it has a misting system and keeps the air fresh as well as maintains heat and humidity. They also have their own background which I wouldn't make for the tree frogs because I'm focused on making the best backgrounds for the largest two setups. The Exo Terra Terrariums have their own background so I don't have to worry about them but this gives the New PA Woods Vivarium added features I wouldn't want to add myself. I am trying to be as efficient as possible with electricity since I now have 5 enclosures. The Biopod is one plug in which is nice.

    I know it's nice to customize our setups and all and I am all for that but I'm trying to design a 125 gallon and update it as well as a 75 gallon. I'm not looking to be as creative with every setup. The Biopod has its own system I just plug in my plants, tree frogs and etc in and it's ready to go.

    Wouldn't it be great to see how the custom enclosures fair compared to the Biopod? I'm very interested in seeing my 125 Gallon Western PA Woods Vivarium compete with the new innovative and technologically advanced enclosure. I'm still looking into it but it's the measurements I actually need for an enclosure and the space available. It's a terrarium and easy for me to access.

    So what do you think about testing out the Biopod and bringing it into the PA Woods Vivariums Family?

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    This was a tough week...

    The Gray Tree Frogs as a whole had a really hard week. For starters in the New PA Woods Vivarium their driftwood piece became moldy so it had to be removed. This was a very important piece of the enclosure because the frogs would lay on it and hunt prey. I managed to get a fake plant and some moss sticks that I'll be using to create a make shift platform for them.

    This is a big blow for the animals and the enclosure as a whole. This was not even the worst news. So one of the baby tree frogs I had found dead at the bottom of their little enclosure. I was very disappointed to find this as I believed the frog to be doing well it was the baby featured in my Thanksgiving Day Faceoff Video.

    The frog may have had a disease or something else that caused the problem because it had been eating well and was the biggest frog of the 4. I am making sure to feed a little bit more in order to help grow the remaining babies and get them into the New PA Woods Vivarium ASAP! I have actually seen them growing lately which is good.

    On a small side note since they don't have a thread anymore I found the new plexiglass lid I made is too small and so again I'll have to spend more money on the lid.

    All 3 situations were setbacks but it still was a great week. All the animals got a feast for Thanksgiving and I fed another swarm of emerging Black Soldier Flies to Christian and Bane. I got some incredible clips for the next video. I also was just able to enjoy seeing the animals all happy and healthy. It was still a good holiday weekend.

    So about the news of who won the Thanksgiving Faceoff Video

    These were the results
    Best Hunter:
    Gray Tree Frogs by more then double the votes

    Best Vivarium:
    Dumpy Family by almost double the votes

    Most Interesting/Educational
    Tie

    MVP:
    Bane & Max tied

    This is good that the first Holiday video was so close. This means these two will square off next year to hopefully get a winner! I hope you enjoyed the video yourself. As for the next video we will be showing a special edition of the Swarms Battles when the Dumpy Family and New PA Woods Vivarium inhabitants battle swarms of the Black Soldier Fly. I hope you are excited to see Tree Frogs vs Flies!

    I am currently committed to getting a Biopod Aqua for the future enclosure for the Gray Tree Frogs to become the Biopod New PA Woods! This decision came from asking owners of the Biopod their experiences and if they believed it would fit what I intend to do for the Gray Tree Frogs. I believe this will help the tree frogs to have a misting system and a nice background and to have UVB as well as humidity. This is wonderful for them and I can't wait to showcase next Thanksgiving the Exo Terra Terrarium vs the Biopod. These are supposedly the nicest two looking brands. I personally believe this for a terrarium as well.


    I am looking forward to featuring these tree frogs in my first attempt at frog week. I think it will be very interesting and educational but will be fun relating the content to these guys. So the way it will work is when I am herping (looking for amphibians and reptiles) I will explain how this effects the Gray Tree Frogs, American Toads, and Northern Leopard Frogs whether it is predators, prey or the environment. I am looking forward to showing you around spots of PA that I believe are incredible and they are sure to be filled with many amphibians.

    Are you surprised by the turnout of the video ending in a tie?

    Are you excited to watch the Tree Frogs vs the Black Soldier Fly in a special Swarms Battle?

    Out of the many possible encounters I may have on Frog Week is there a specific creature you would hope I encounter?

    Like Salamanders, Ants, Newts, Bullfrogs, Snakes or something like that


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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    A quiet weekend continuing to look ahead...

    I took out the wood and put in the smaller make shift accessory. I just had a quiet day of maintenance basically. Finally after the Thanksgiving feasts I'm going to feed again all the animals. While I'm going to be feeding again it had me thinking about some very incredible opportunities for the Swarms Battles next year. I think I gave it away on my YouTube Channel I made a new playlist showing two documentaries of two species I will be using for some battles.

    I am of course talking about the Dragonfly and the Praying Mantis. Both insects are known for being able to hunt frogs and toads. The aquatic stage of the Dragonfly can catch fish that's how quick they are. The Mantis can catch younger frogs and toads. This is obviously setting up to be the two most interesting battles when they come out. The New PA Woods Vivarium will actually not feature these large native insects but the toads and possibly someone else will be given the opportunity to exact some revenge for their fallen brethren. So if the toads are going to be battling these two native creatures then it's fair to explain why the New PA Woods Vivarium will host two arboreal insects to draw their own interest. A close relative to the dragonfly is the Damselfly and the other insect is the Green Lacewing. I am excited to see how Bane and Christian will react to these two flying feeders. It will also be incredible to document the baby tree frogs joining forces with Bane and Christian for these invading swarms. Perhaps we will see the Black Soldier Fly join in on the fun and be an ally to the flying insect invasion.

    Do you think it would be interesting to see two insect species invade the lands of the New PA Woods Vivarium? The choices are the Black Soldier Fly, Damselfly and Green Lacewing.

    The way these types of battles will be won is if the swarm has a to be determined amount of survivors then they win. However with the increase of Gray Tree Frogs from just a pair to around seven so if the frogs eat all or a number to be determined then they will win. Do you think this is a fair way to decide a winner?

    I am still looking for two female tree frogs so if I can find some then the number of tree frogs will end at seven since there will be three babies hopefully. Are you excited to see how a group of these frogs will cohabitate?

    For the battles I am going to do some different things when the spring rolls around. I will have exclusive feeders for the different species like the flying insects mostly will be for the tree frogs and the larger insects will be only involved in the larger amphibian battles. Do you like the idea of more exclusive feeders for the amphibians of the PA Woods?


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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    I just put a link to my group chat in the description of my newest two videos. If you want to join the conversation on YouTube if you have an account you will be able to see what we talk about on the community page. It is not the same conversation as my weekend updates. Look in the description of my videos near the end it will say join community below and click the link below.



    https://youtu.be/Epk7bfhCtbg

    https://youtu.be/qjZkOXR7EV4

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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    Info on new video and more...

    This week was another quiet week and the Gray Tree Frogs are doing great. Bane and Christian are healthy and pudgy. The babies are growing and I fed more so they would grow. I took each baby out and let them crawl on me so they got used to me handling them and they wouldn't be stressed. The plants in The New PA Woods Vivarium are adapting to captive care and died back a little bit but are coming back.

    So now that I have been looking more into what the future home will be for the Gray Tree Frogs I have come to the conclusion that there isn't a total number yet for tree frogs so I cannot choose between which Biopod I will select. I have narrowed it down to 3: Biopod Aqua (front runner), Biopod Aqua II, Biopod Grand (it is horrible to assemble they don't put it together for you). I am anticipating 7 gray tree frogs which I know is a lot so I am going to wait and see what happens with the total number and save up until it's time to choose. I've been pointed to the Aqua as being the best option. Remember it's going to be a very complete setup with full spectrum lighting, it pumps it's own air into the system and has a misting system. It is a very good system. I'm not convinced it can house that many but not sure that many will be in it.

    Biopod Aqua 24 inches long 15 inches wide 21 inches tall

    Biopod Aqua II 18 inches long 15 inches wide 28 inches tall

    Biopod Grand 49 inches long 15 inches wide 28 inches tall

    Which one sounds the best? Remember the Grand doesn't come built and had no instructions.

    Thinking of a group name for the Gray Tree Frogs and I had the name The Gray Army suggested as a name since a group of frogs is literally called an army of frogs. Do you like this name or have something better? Comment what you think.

    The next video and last of the year will feature the Gray Tree Frogs and Dumpy Family battling the Black Soldier Fly Swarm. The video is set for New Years Eve as the release to give a kick start to ushering in 2019 the frog way! Be sure to checkout some unbelievable footage of the Swarms Battle.

    I think I am interested in writing two articles to start 2019. I'm interested in talking about a bioactive setup focusing on the roles and relationships the ecosystem requires. I am also interested in discussing the topic of a mixed species setup the challenges and rewards. I'll be sure to include more as I move forward. What are your thoughts on the two articles?

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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    Some small progress...

    The Hydrangea plant has begun growing leaves and hopefully will grow out to be just as bushy as it was before. This will make Christian and Bane happy. I see the babies also getting bigger. I noticed a major difference so hopefully around February they can go in with Christian and Bane.

    I have still been thinking about the best option for the future of the New PA Woods Vivarium meaning the Biopod and I'm just hoping that I make the best decision for the tree frogs. I'm not doubting myself with using the Biopod I'm just thinking about how many tree frogs will inhabit the land. There is no guarantee that I will have the max number of tree frogs that I'm considering right now. Only time will tell so for now there isn't much to worry about.

    So I have found a small store in my town that may work with me or sponsor me moving forward. We had a good first meeting but have a lot to go before a deal is reached. So the best thing about this store they don't sell pets just supplies. This is ethical and I think a good business to be involving with. They will get feeder insects in but that's about it. I'm planning on ordering the Biopod from them if they can get it in. I am planning on acting on this opportunity in the future.

    I'm not too sure what this week will hold but I'm sure it will have more progress!

    What do you think about my concerns do you think tree frogs can cohabitate together in a group?


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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    A very sad update but not on the tree frogs...

    I really didn't want to write this because it's still hard to deal with but a very bad situation occurred in the latter half of the week. After a very big feast for the Toads of the Western PA Woods Vivarium all was normal and I had another quiet week until then.

    Everything changed when late Wednesday night I saw Ace sitting on a fern and she had a prolapse. I was so frustrated seeing this and I placed her into a small bin and soaked her in hopes she could kick her organs back in herself but she could not.

    The next morning I took her to the vet and the vet got her organs back inside her body. It all seemed like it would work out. Then the next morning again Ace had another prolapse. Again I took her to the vet unsure of what would happen. The vet assured me that this may keep happening unless we performed surgery to trim the organ and put it back inside her as step 1. Step 2 would be to figure out why the prolapse happened. Step 3 would be to take action. Before any further action could be planned the vet told me I would have to sign a consent form in case Ace did not wake up from being put under in the surgery. I assured her I would not blame her should Ace have passed because we did literally all that we could do with the surgery and immediate vet visits.

    I waited all day until around 5 pm when the vet called me. She said that Ace had woken up and been active and normal. So she had survived the surgery which is step 1. Ace stayed the night at the vet and I'm going tomorrow to pick her up and we will plan what's next for step 2.

    This is a very big deal that she had surgery. I am almost 100% that Ace can never breed now. As many of you know this was a major reason why I came back to the hobby in order to replenish the native frogs and toads. Today critically damaged that goal and was a very big let down in many ways. Ace had already had a seizure months ago from the toxins of a gray tree frog and now had a prolapse. Ace has overcome so much in her life. The will to live is truly a trait that Ace has. She is so strong and tough and I am no where near as tough as she is. She is very special to me and I love all my animals but even before this Ace was just very special. I truly and honestly wanted Ace to be the mother of this goal that a hobbyist can replenish the native species and not just toads. Because she is so special and how much I admire her and how strong she truly is I believed she would mate with her equally as impressive mate Pious and they would create some of the toughest and most impressive toads. I still 100% believe she would produce the most impressive offspring and I'm not sure another female toad can match her traits that she would pass down.

    Sadly I do not believe she can mate with Pious now and she most likely cannot be the mother of this goal. It is devastating to me with how much effort I put into it and the hopes I had of making sure her beauty and legacy lived on forever.

    I can't continue to update about this because it's still very new and I am not accepting of this just yet but I can say I'm thankful that I have her and I will make sure that I cherish her every moment when I get her back. I will not give Pious another female he is going to live out his days with Ace as long as those two live. I just cannot think to take away her best friend just so he can mate. Those two will permanently live as a couple regardless of what Ace can and can't do.

    I believe constipation to be the problem. There can be a few reasons why this makes sense. The main reason I believe this is because while I have water bins for the toads and a fogger that that hydrates the toads, they must not be going to the bathroom in the water because they must not feel safe to or must not like a large bin to use. So I'll try and place a small water bin in the enclosure to see if the other two toads will use it. The other reason is being winter and toads also have a slow metabolism so this means they may use the restroom less then they normally would. So they may not be passing their waste because of the season and metabolism. The other reason may be if a toad eats too much or an item is too large. Well nothing has been too large because the biggest thing I use are large crickets. This leaves the other and much more probable Ace overate and could not pass a bowl movement and instead may have had a prolapse.

    I believe the small water dish and season along with slow metabolism may be the cause. So I am also throwing around the idea of getting a laxative from the vet to give to the toads so they all go regularly. I am not sure just yet but we will get this problem solved. Ace is doing great and will remain a focus point of my work.

    I will update you all of her condition and step 2 tomorrow.


    I am making the next video tonight which will be coming out around New Year's Eve. The Gray Tree Frogs and Dumpy Family will be featured. Sorry for no update on the Gray Tree Frogs but they are connected to the PA Woods Vivariums family. I will have more updates on the Gray Tree Frogs and the Toads tomorrow.

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    A glimmer of hope

    So today when I got a phone call from the vet she told me some very good news. So apparently she performed surgery on Ace but she will in a year or so be able to breed with Pious. This was one very good sign that she will be able to live life to the fullest!

    When I got her she seemed to be doing good and wanted to go home. I was very happy to have her back. She has gone through a lot of hard times but she is a fighter!

    It's been a very high stress weekend so I don't have too much to share because all the attention was on Ace and her condition. I did manage to get all the content I needed to make the next video. I finished deciding on the clips. You will see a lot of Bane, Christian and their special guests the Dumpy Family. There are a lot of really incredible clips and I'm really looking forward to sharing this with you!

    I'm just so relieved Ace is healthy and in my care again. I'm very happy that I have something positive to share with you for this update.

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    Got back from vacation...

    I just got back from vacation and was gone from Sunday to Friday night then had to go to work so I only got to check on everyone and go off of updates given to me.

    It was nice to get away but man I had to drive 13 hours before sun up and after sun down to work overnight tonight at my job so as the night goes on we will see how things go.

    I got an update on the toad as she is healthy and she provided a stool sample for the doctor. It came back negative for worms! This means so far in testing a wild toad is free from parasites as of right now! I had an organic dewormer and used it for a while so maybe it actually worked!

    The female toad is doing good from her surgery and will be good to go home tomorrow. I'm very happy for her!

    As for the Gray Tree Frogs well they are a little to chubby for my liking. They had a feast and became overweight so they will be on a diet. I am surprised how much weight they put on. Little plump tree frogs it's kinda funny but not healthy so we will get them under control.

    To my knowledge the baby tree frogs are doing great and may have grown! I'm very excited to see tomorrow and will let you all know.

    I was given a link to the Biopod Grand and I was still thinking between the Grand and Aqua. That's one issue I'm dealing with.

    I am also doing the commentary for the upcoming video coming New Year's Eve! You'll see how the Gray Tree Frogs became chubby!

    I will be looking to create a guide and detailed article on mixed species first for the next article I'll be writing. I feel that many new keepers have been coming into the hobby asking for care on species that will not work together or are new to the hobby and want to have two species they've never owned just seen in picture and YouTube and are trying to recreate what they saw. I am doing this out of concern, love for the animals, and hopefully to educate new keepers or discourage from unlikely mixed species setups and avoiding them. I feel this may be one of the most important articles I'll write for forums. This I hope other keepers will share when someone has a mixed species setup with judging whether or not their setup can be successful.

    I'll have more info tomorrow!

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  14. #14
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    A good and quiet weekend!

    So I did manage to sleep at least a little bit since last night and I got a chance to see the babies tonight! They look great and got much bigger! They are still far away from meeting Bane and Christian. The little babies seem to be getting more fond of people and are very comfortable with people handling them. I believe they are actually Cope's Gray Tree Frogs because of the green coloration they display. It's like a plain green which is something that the Cope's Gray Tree Frogs display usually. The difference between them and the adults has helped me to understand that Bane is a gray tree frog not a Cope's Gray Tree Frog. So thanks to these babies for helping settle the debate as to what Bane was. Of course this will be very interesting to see what will happen when Cope's Gray and Gray Tree Frogs meet and live among one another. Will there be a certain species that takes control or will it be whoever the more dominant frogs are? This will be very interesting moving forward.

    Bane and Christian are doing great and are chubby. They were slow moving and calm all day today. I cannot wait to show you the video coming out soon of how incredible these tree frogs are! They are absolutely incredible and beautiful.

    I am very excited also to create the upcoming article for keepers on mixing species and to give many tips on the subject. I hope this will be offered as something that members will read and offer to newbie keepers that ask the questions of mixing species. This truly is meant to benefit the animals and ensure readers understand the risks as well as the different factors that go into a setup with multiple inhabitants.

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  15. #15
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    This was a week I'll never forget but want to...

    So I have another update on the continuing story of my toad Ace. While I was on vacation she was doing great then about two days later before I could unpack everything from my trip she had another prolapse. I just thought this would be put back in and things would be normal but on a very sad Christmas Eve the vet talked to me about euthanasia for Ace. I told her no not on Christmas Eve I wanted to wait and give her a chance. The vet thought she would continue to have a prolapse and it was painful for her having them so it would just cause suffering. I had three options left as well as euthanasia.

    I could give her more time and see how she does maybe she can recuperate. possibly hibernate her since she was actually on pace to hibernate. If it's a risk of death then there would be nothing to lose. The third option would be to try to run tests on her but other vets may actually put her down so that's not safe. I was somewhere between option 1,2 and euthanasia.

    I had a horrible night Christmas Eve and Christmas thinking Ace was just sooner or later going to have to be buried. The irony is I was trying to save her from the thing that was going to kill her. No toad had ever survived a prolapse and only female toads had them for me. I was beginning to wonder if it was still worth it if I was having problems with the females why would I put another through this? Then on Thursday I believe the answer came from an outside source.

    We put Ace into a small container to quarantine her and had it next to her home so she could still see it and maybe get some type of motivation. Well her mate and long time tank mate Pious came to the front of the tank and he saw her. He sat and looked at her as she looked back at him. It seems that Ace is doing really good for the moment and Pious appeared to motivate her with his presence. It appears that seeing him was something that gave her a reason to fight and hopefully overcome the prolapses. We are still in the danger zone until Tuesday and we need her to hold her colon inside for as long as she can. If she can hold it from here on out she will be okay.

    I couldn't give up on her just yet seeing how she may prolapse but she wants to eat and has high energy and she is alert. She has all the signs of a healthy toad so it's odd this happened to her. Either way Ace could use your thoughts and prayers because this is an uphill battle and she's a fighter. She has a lot of reason to live. I'm going to do all that I can to help her but this is all her doing that she is still alive.

    As for the video it is still on schedule for New Years Eve. I've just devoted most money and time to Ace so I haven't had the opportunity to focus on these tree frogs. I've still done maintenance and everything just not been too engaged.

    Sorry for a sad update but I haven't even wanted to write this out not knowing what will happen next.

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  16. #16
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    An update a little less dramatic but still important...

    These past few weeks has been very difficult on me especially seeing a beloved pet suffering from an unknown reason having a prolapse. It made me very frustrated and I was also not in the best mindset with this situation happening once again. I am still figuring out how this happened and am aiming to avoid this for the future. I had taken some time away from being involved in the forums and such because I just was not thinking positive about the situation and everything involved. I have been able to relax at least for moments this week and understand how these are indeed wild animals so things can happen no matter the care.

    That is one thing with working with wild animals they have their own health problems. Another situation is why the prolapse has happened every so often to an animal and specifically female toads. I've never had a male toad prolapse and just about no other animals. I honestly think that there are three things I can do to avoid these situations again.

    The first thing is use smaller feeder insects. Small and medium size prey will be easier to digest and I can still keep the crickets in the enclosure. Even if some make it to adults there are other toads that can hunt and eat. Also the odds are not that high many can live long enough to become an adult.

    Second is actually the hibernation process and I knew this a long time ago and considered this for Ace. Female toads there is a myth that I personally never have seen debunked that they have a build up of eggs and this can kill the females and it does make sense why I have such a difficult time with the females. But many people may be wondering why others keep females with no problem? The answer could be the conditions like temp, humidity and feedings possibly weather conditions as well. I may have females that have something build up over time like a parasite and could be the killer. The other possible situation is the females eat more and gorge themselves to the point of injury which I hope is not the case.

    The hibernation process however would benefit the females regardless what situation it is the females suffer like this. Giving their bodies a rest for 5-6 months will prevent the long-standing gorging of food and would pass the eggs assuming the toads mate and may help to fight off the parasite. Like I said it's not going to be a freeze it will be kept in the 40's just below the toads active range in the 50's. So you see this is still a risk but could be the answer to my problem.

    Third I will use small water dishes so the toads will go into them. I was thinking maybe the toads are not using the water bins and are getting dehydrated but I actually think this may have been debunked today! Pious the male toad I saw for the first time went into the water and soaked in the larger bin. His mate Ace the female who has been struggling with a prolapse also soaks. So I am beginning to think these toads specifically do not suffer from this. Not all toads will soak actually they may use a water bowl something small with water like a toilet for humans but Ace and Pious both will utilize a large water area as I exposed them to this when they were young and this may be a fading possibility!


    So seeing life change so fast from me saying how healthy and special these toads were and the healthiest toad suffering in the blink of an eye and being challenged once again by the prolapse problem all of this made me think maybe I should just switch to exotic animals because for some reason the animals I know the most about the toads I can't seem to keep the females more then 4-5 years.

    I had considered the switch but there was just a few problems. I love the toads too much and all the native species too much to give up. The toads, frogs and even skinks are some of my favorite animals and just because the toads are the most work I enjoy them just as much as their maintenance. I need to find a way through what's going on not give up because many others could be going through this as well.

    As for the tree frogs let me say that they are chubby and act as if they are in a retirement home lol they sleep and soak in water and bask. Sometimes they eat but remember they are on a diet. Bane and Christian are the perfect pets they are so easy and laid back. The baby Cope's Gray Tree Frogs are coming along. They are doing great and all 3 are growing. They are very laid back as well. I can't wait to show you all how Christian and Bane went from curious and active frogs to casually hanging out.

    The video will be coming very very soon!

    Ace the toad is day to day and tomorrow is another big step so keep her in thought and prayer we are getting closer to being safe again. I will not be putting her down but if I have to I'll hibernate her and if she passes she does in her sleep not because of euthanasia. I don't want to make this a bad end to the update but this is what we are facing. Watch out for a weekday update coming soon!

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  17. #17
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    Checkout the new video featuring The Tree Frogs!

    https://youtu.be/06ojFgseB8s

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  18. #18
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    State of the PA Woods Address...


    Idk where to begin with this update. It is a rollercoaster of a story! So to continue the story of my toad Ace. She had another prolapse on New Year's Day and I knew my vet was going to say it's time to put her down. I was so exhausted and tired and felt I gave a lot of time and money to my toad and this would be it. I actually found every clip I have of her on my computer and I bought a small pet tombstone as I was preparing to put her to rest because the vet couldn't do anything more. She said I could contact the Pittsburgh Zoo and I did. I asked her first if she could fix the prolapse and allow me to have some time to record her and take pictures. I called the zoo and spoke to a biologist. He actually told me he knows a vet that could help Ace. At this time I had nothing to lose and I reached out to the vet and there was an odd and long story that led me to another vet. They believed they had a vet that could save Ace. They oddly enough had an appointment the next day but it was a 2 hour drive. I did it anyways I made the appointment for Ace. I figured that it was time to get some answers about why I had problems with female toads. Boy I'm happy I went.


    I spent an arm and a leg but I found a vet who is one of a few hundred in the country that specializes in frogs and lizards and etc. She turned a situation where I thought Ace would be euthanized to a situation now we are medicating her and expecting a hopeful recovery. She gave me the solid answers I've been searching for. She is going to make the PA Woods Vivariums even better for the animals and for us. They will be the healthiest as well. She worked with or works with Ripley's Aquarium and multiple zoos. So there you have it. It took not giving up and not accepting the current circumstances as being the only circumstances. Even if she dies Ace got answers for future generations and she selflessly endured illness so the others around her can get help and to eventually thrive. Ace will hold a special place in my heart being so tough but she will be responsible for saving the lives of all the animals around her. She in a way endured suffering for them so hopefully all the animals I own now will not suffer from problems of the past. I will inform everyone how Ace does moving forward and I am very hopeful that she will survive.

    So moving on to the state of the PA Woods Vivariums

    So there are mostly good things and some things many people will be surprised about.

    Learning from this Vet there are some changes I need to make for the updated PA Woods Vivariums especially for my toads and it will take a while to get all this stuff set up to be done the right way. So the toads enclosures will most likely not be finished by the end of the summer or they will be finished around the time the toads must hibernate. So 2019 will not see the updated PA Woods Vivariums 125 Gallon Western PA Woods and 75 Gallon Pine Creek PA Woods, but the New PA Woods Vivarium with the Gray Tree Frogs will continue to carry the native side of the content. Because I have a lot of updating to do and I have to treat many animals like the entire PA Woods Vivariums animals and the exotic animals it will take some time to get them all through to be together in the setups. The toads will be first that's why they will sit out this year. I may show some pics and give updates though so you know of the progress.

    How do you feel about the toads sitting out of the public eye for a year? This is what I thought would be the biggest shocker. Maybe the toads will make an appearance for Frog and Toad Week in July



    As for the Gray Tree Frogs they are going after the toads to be checked but will not hibernate this winter that is why they will still be around. We can do some Swarms Battles with the Gray Tree Frogs and we can focus on them more this year. I plan on attempting to purchase the Biopod Grand for them and setting up my version of a native Gray Tree Frogs habitat. I will try to purchase this enclosure by the fall because it's $1k so I'll have to save A LOT.
    I will try to document the build as well so many other Gray Tree Frog keepers can see what I'm doing. I believe Bane and Christian can hold down the native side of the PA Woods Vivariums. We will be searching for two females to accompany Bane and Christian so there will be more joining them. Let's not forget about the baby tree frogs waiting and growing patiently to join forces with the two males currently. That will be big news. The Gray Tree Frogs will not have a mixed species setup it will be just them as we focus on how incredible and amazing they are. There are many great things about them and I look forward to displaying them for you to see. I have come up with a name for the group of Gray Tree Frogs when they will all be together. There were not many name suggestions so I went with one I thought fit the most. I'll give you a small hint. What scientific classification is a group of frogs called? Like a school of fish and pack of dogs what are frogs?

    So there you have it. What is to come in 2019 will be the year of the Tree Frog. They will be the summer stars. Let me know your thoughts on 2019 for the PA Woods!

    Please keep Ace in your prayers also. She still has a lot of work to do getting healthy again.

    Make sure you checkout the State of the Five Lined Dumpy Family as I'll be writing that up tonight also!

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  19. #19
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    Another update on the animals....

    So after taking some time to think about it I decided that I needed to be more aggressive and make a decision that will cost a lot of money now but will benefit later down the road.

    So after taking some time to think about it I decided that the next vet visit for my toad Ace I will also bring Wellsboro in so he can be helped. If you remember he was having trouble putting on weight and I believe this is the best decision to make because he just like all my animals matter and it's a public sign that I believe in him and I'm not giving up on him. I am going to be in more debt but I'll have very healthy toads hopefully after all this.


    I've just struggled and been so upset about the possibility of death for one of my animals and I am just tired of having to feel this way. My toads by no means are at the end of their lives. So they have a lot of living to do and I'm tired of having death on my mind. I'm at the point where I'm going to get more aggressive and treat the animals and not wait and do one at a time.

    Plus it will make it easier setting up the two enclosures if I have the toads treated and can go right into the setup.

    On the other side of the PA Woods Vivariums the Gray Tree Frogs are doing great. I can confirm Christian is the frog who is calling. I have not been able to document it but I will as soon as I can.

    I believe he is doing this to claim dominance because it's not a mating call and it's not a distress call. I can't wait to document this so you can hear what I do and see how unusual this is.

    The baby tree frogs are growing I saw the poop is about double what it was which is impressive because the change hasn't happened in a long period of time. It has taken a while for the frogs to grow but recently I am seeing them grow at a faster rate.

    I am excited to see both adults and babies join forces and come together to make up the Gray Army. That's right the name for these guys is the Gray Army.


    My exotic animals have group names and the native animals only have their enclosures named. The reason the Gray Tree Frogs will have both is because they are an independent group. I could easily make their setup and care more towards the exotics but I am not sure I want them to join the exotics side of the PA Woods.

    While they may bring balance causing me to highlight the exotics more then I have in the past. They will leave behind their tank name though if added to the exotic side.

    Honestly it doesn't matter as much for their care and requirements it's just what do I want them to live with. I am not opposed to changing them but I want to see what you all think? Should I make a new thread and ask the question? Would you want to see me design a more tropical looking enclosure for the Gray Army? This would make a difference with the exotics of the PA Woods Vivariums.


    What do you think?

    What is the best hygrometer that you recommend?

    What UVB light fixture would you recommend?

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  20. #20
    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: New PA Woods Vivarium (Gray Tree Frogs)

    A wild shakeup for the PA Woods Vivariums!

    I have been diligently spending time researching what I need for the Gray Army and the other animals of the PA Woods.

    I have researched lights to soil to feeders to plants and so much more! I am glad to say that wow is the PA Woods going to be different. I have found the missing information I believe to be able to build a true ecosystem for plants, predators and prey. From feeding the insects inside the enclosure to maintain their nutritious content to having a spot for UVB and even designating plants as the focus point of the enclosure. I have been asking this vet so many questions that I didn't have answers to. I am glad to say that she will be able to help me with keeping these amphibians and with helping the forums to get care.

    Not only will the goal of displaying hibernation and breeding be in the PA Woods Vivariums but now being an example of proper health and diet will be another focus point.

    Ace is doing great she ate a little today and is alive! Bane actually had a prolapse but got the care he needed just hours after it happened so he's in better shape. Good thing I found this vet because the old one would have put down Ace and Bane. But they can come back from this and live!

    Bane was dewormed this week but needs to go back this Thursday for a follow-up. Ace if she eats can be dewormed but not as intense. So after Bane is done in maybe a month or two Christian will be next so the adult Gray Tree Frogs will be complete and can be finished. Then my toads I will attempt to complete. So the Gray Army will be ready to go when the time is theirs. Plus at the end of summer they have an upcoming build that will be a big part of the channel. But what side will the Gray Army be on when the build is finished?

    I say that because I am considering more the idea of the Gray Army being in a more tropical forest instead of a PA Woods. Trust me I am very focused on creating the PA Woods but I just think it might be a better direction for the Tree Frogs. I'm actually 50/50 with what I will do but just know this is for the best interest of the animals not for me. I will have 2 PA Woods Vivariums which is still awesome! The Gray Tree Frogs will be referenced by their nickname not the name of the enclosure. When I have made a decision on what environment they will have I'll make a new thread for them. I think I may do a thread for two years and then start another one to show the progress but not have 10k posts from years back lol


    The Western PA Woods will actually be finished before the Pine Creek PA Woods. Both toads assuming Ace lives and is able to breed will have a leg up with a complete pair of toads and they have a lot more of what I need I don't have to buy quite as much. I am also moving away from the 75 gallon aquarium. I will in fact use the Tetrafauna 75 gallon Viquarium. This is like a terrarium with doors and a good lid but also a drain at the bottom so I can empty the water from the fish. This is more suited towards what I want to do. See I actually wanted this first but settled for the 75 gallon. So I'm actually going for it. With the purchase of this means it will in fact take me a while to build around this time probably next year I'll have most of it done. The summer will be focusing on the rebuild of the Western PA Woods Vivarium.

    So a lot will change with possibly the Gray Tree Frogs joining the animals of the exotic side and the Pine Creek PA Woods being built in a new enclosure. There is a lot going on!

    The state of the PA Woods is changing and there is a lot of exciting new information. Get ready for a wild 2019 and the rebuild of the Wild Wild West. The Western PA Woods Vivarium that is.

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