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Thread: Copes Tree Frogs?

  1. #1

    Default Copes Tree Frogs?

    Hi, I was told in a reptile identification group that I have Cope's Tree Frog tadpoles. We found them in my son's water table on our deck just one day. I believe it was probably almost a month ago we found them. Well, my 3.5 year old son fell in love with them and they are his "best friends"... so mommy bought a fish tank and some frog food and wha la... we have a tank of tadpoles. I have read a lot and know what they eat and to change the water and only use spring water... but I am wondering about temperatures. We live in Northern, VA and when we first found them the temperature was like 80-90 degrees ... now, the temps at night are in the 40's and 50's. I have the tank on my deck still since 1) we found them wild outside and 2) we have cats and I can't bring it inside. How cold can these little guys take? Should I get a tank heater? I'm also curious if they really are tree frogs and how much longer they are going to take developing. They seem to have little tiny legs so far. I just didn't think tadpoles would be around so close to winter?

    I have attached a video of them for your viewing pleasure.

    Thanks!

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd557zj1mi...poles.mp4?dl=0

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  3. #2

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Bump? Nobody can help me? We did end up bringing them inside as we started getting some frosty days... but still curious about what they really are and how much longer it will take them to grow up.

  4. #3

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Once they start growing legs everything else speeds up. Don't worry about temperature unless it's super cold to the touch. Your tadpoles are just taking longer to morph because they are getting fed and can afford to stay a tadpole for a few weeks longer than usual.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by otofrog View Post
    Once they start growing legs everything else speeds up. Don't worry about temperature unless it's super cold to the touch. Your tadpoles are just taking longer to morph because they are getting fed and can afford to stay a tadpole for a few weeks longer than usual.
    Thank you! Are you able to tell if they are Cope's or not? Or do I have to wait till they morph first?

  6. #5
    100+ Post Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Hi there I wouldn't disagree that they are Gray tree frog tadpoles. I had a little trouble identifying them because the tadpole colour is too dark in the video. As to my experience I have always found that Gray tree frog tadpoles in the later stages of metamorphosis have a flaming orange/red tail. Based on the pattern of the tail it definitely looks like GTF tadpoles so don't have too many doubts there. BTW I have no idea what a water table is but if you found them on your back deck as an egg mass or just tadpoles that makes it pretty fair to assume they are tree frog tadpoles as tree frogs are commonly known to lay eggs in rain barrels, old vehicles/boats that collects rainwater, and any other junk left to collect water where it requires them to climb. Toads like shallow widespread marsh, and pond frogs (ranidae) like permanent bodies of water. Keep in mind that in your region the Gray tree frog (Hyla versicolor) and Cope's gray tree frog (Hyla chrysoscelis) overlap. These frogs are differentiated at the chromosomal level because they are exactly identical in appearance. However males are identified based on their mating call so if you really care to know that exact species Cope's gray tree frog has a faster trill rate and higher frequency. Hybrids occur too because females of Hyla chrysoscelis will breed with Hyla versicolor during warm temperatures if male H. chrysoscelis mating call is a very fast trill rate. If temperatures are cool especially during night when they are active usually starting around May, females are more attracted to the slower produced advertisement call of H. chrysoscelis. So I actually have no idea which species it is, LOL. Watch out for calling males especially on warm rainy nights to tell their call it's not hard. I also live in an overlapped breeding zone too so I find that 90 percent H. versicolor and 10 percent H. chrysoscelis, but it's probably different for you. The tail is a huge giveaway for GTF tadpoles. Let me know if I helped at all!

  7. #6

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Thank you! That is super helpful! A water table is just a toddler toy that holds water and they splash and play in it. So yes, we found the tadpoles swimming in my son’s water.

    i have a few more questions... we now have an official frog! Most of them are still tadpoles but one has transformed. He is quite tiny and a greenish color I think. I see him just sitting on top of the rock I have outside the water level of our tank.

    Since it’s almost winter now, should I wait on releasing them till spring? Also... what do I feed them now that I have actual frogs? The food we have been giving them says frog and tadpole food... will the frogs still go back into the water to eat?

  8. #7
    100+ Post Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Hello again, I don't know where the season is at in Virginia, but in Manitoba is probably too late to release newly transformed metamorphs into the wild. GTF tadpoles in MB would have already transformed into juveniles around 2 months ago but since they were laid outside of captivity I'd assume it's not to late to release them assuming they were hatched during breeding season. If your releasing them into the cold I wouldn't be surprised if they'd die so keep them if you feel it's necessary; your call! If your tadpole food is pellets I very highly doubt that juvenile frogs would ever eat them, but since I have little experience in raising frogs I cannot tell you 100 percent reliable information. Frogs vision is prone to movement and find their food by selecting moving prey, so sitting pellets might not seem attractive as they won't sniff it out. I wouldn't say not to try feeding them tadpole food as you may experiment, but I find that they aren't super hungry during metamorphosis and juvenile stages of their life because they are small but also receive nutrition from their disappearing tail. I would suggest going to a pet store that has reptiles and amphibians and asking them what they have for small frogs. They may have small crickets, bloodworms, possibly termites, and any really small invertebrates. Maybe try trapping fruit flies with a sticky fly trap. To be honest I'm not sure what to feed them but hopefully they grow quick enough that they can eat insects available at a pet store. I hope this helps you and feel free to ask more questions, I hope your miniature tree frogs live!

  9. #8

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Thank you again! I am not sure when they hatched actually cause we didn’t use our deck for quite a long time during the summer cause it was just too darn hot! I think we discovered them on October 5th. But the temps have been 40-50 lately ... we have a pond near the house which I’m assuming would be a good place to release them...there’s like 10 tadpoles in there so I just don’t really want to be raising that many frogs but I also don’t want to do wrong by them.

    The pet pet store was little help to me when I went ... they didn’t even know they had frog food.

    attaching some more pictures... they really are super tiny. There are some air holes at the top of my tank where the cords come inside... I hope they don’t hop out!!
    Attached Images Attached Images    

  10. #9

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Oh geeze... my phone posted the pictures upside down and the ones of the little frog are terrible.... blah.

  11. #10
    100+ Post Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    LOL, I've been to those pet stores that seem to know very little! Honestly I don't think you will be doing much wrong to them by releasing them into a pond. They seem to be behind schedule on their development but that's probably their parents fault; you also live farther south than I so it might be normal where you live. If you choose to let them go you are just letting nature figure itself out because they aren't captive bred, especially to the tadpoles that aren't in an aquarium. It seems natural to let them go, but if you have developed an interest in keeping some you could try; but raising juveniles is way harder than adults so it's not recommended but still your choice. If you want to release them that wouldn't be a bad idea just maybe see if there are more tadpoles in the actual pond because if there are then definitely feel free to release them.

  12. #11

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    LOL, I've been to those pet stores that seem to know very little! Honestly I don't think you will be doing much wrong to them by releasing them into a pond. They seem to be behind schedule on their development but that's probably their parents fault; you also live farther south than I so it might be normal where you live. If you choose to let them go you are just letting nature figure itself out because they aren't captive bred, especially to the tadpoles that aren't in an aquarium. It seems natural to let them go, but if you have developed an interest in keeping some you could try; but raising juveniles is way harder than adults so it's not recommended but still your choice. If you want to release them that wouldn't be a bad idea just maybe see if there are more tadpoles in the actual pond because if there are then definitely feel free to release them.
    Thank you! Good advice. I figured I've given them way more of a fighting chance already than if I had left them in the water table. They surely would have died out there in the baking sun and no food.

    We mostly did it for my son cause he was so fascinated by them and wanted to see them grow. He sits in front of the tank every day and feeds them... But we have been telling him we need to set them free when they grow up.

    Actually I have one more question - can I handle them? Like if I tried to put them in a different container to release them... do I just pick them up?

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    100+ Post Member Yoda's Avatar
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    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Oh I never actually thought about them baking in the sun, good job for saving them. Yes you can pick them up be careful of course because they're young, but when you pick them up its better to pick up frogs in a non-pinching style where you never squeeze them but instead scoop them up or something. I catch these little guys in my pond every year so I'm used to handing all kinds of frogs. Out of all frogs I believe tree frogs are the only frogs that don't mind being handled and adults will often just sit on your hand content. Toads on the other hand often whimper while trapped inside your hands lol.

  14. #13

    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    Quote Originally Posted by Yoda View Post
    Oh I never actually thought about them baking in the sun, good job for saving them. Yes you can pick them up be careful of course because they're young, but when you pick them up its better to pick up frogs in a non-pinching style where you never squeeze them but instead scoop them up or something. I catch these little guys in my pond every year so I'm used to handing all kinds of frogs. Out of all frogs I believe tree frogs are the only frogs that don't mind being handled and adults will often just sit on your hand content. Toads on the other hand often whimper while trapped inside your hands lol.
    Ok, so IÂ’m a terrible frog mom. IÂ’m not sure what happened but the little frog died. We were feeding him fruit flies but he didnÂ’t really seem that interested. He spent most of his time hiding up at the top of the tank, clinging to the sides.

    i found him tonight just floating in the water at the bottom. He had turned almost translucent. I dunno what happened but did he drown? Did he fall off the top of the tank somehow and drown in the water? CanÂ’t they swim? I have about three ish inches of water at the bottom of the tank for the tadpoles and then some plants sticking out and also a very large rock stuck to the side of the tank that they can crawl up and out of.

    I feel so bad but IÂ’m glad my son didnÂ’t find him.

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    Default Re: Copes Tree Frogs?

    It's OK, I understand that it is like 5 times harder to take care of young frogs because feeding is often quite difficult! I hope they had decent lighting though! If you had rocks for the little guy to sit on they should be fine as long as they can actually climb onto it; your picture makes it look evident they can. Tree frogs drown fairly easily in comparison to some species and I've often found them drowned in rain barrels or steep garden ponds (made of plastic), because once their sticky feet become too wet they keep on slipping down and continually make the sides even more wet and drown after several hours. I see you have a rock so I honestly don't know what happened. Raising tadpoles is a great experience but once metamorphosis is complete it is safest to release them back into the wild. Raising a mature adult frog is the easiest! Don't feel any guilt over what happened it is all about learning from your mistakes!

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