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Thread: 2 quick White tree frog questions

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    Default 2 quick White tree frog questions

    I haven't actually got any frogs yet, I will be a total beginner.
    I have been reading up for months now to make sure frogs will be right for me and more importantly whether I can give them a happy life.
    I plan to start out with fake plants but I keep wondering about the substrate. I really like the more natural look substrate but keep hearing that paper towels would be best. I would be grateful of some opinions on whether I can go with an earthy substrate or should I stick with the paper towels. Which substrate would be best for WTF (as in the more natural looking if it is possible.)
    My other question is about the size of Exo terra I should go with. I did plan to just go straight in and get a 45x45x60 but I read somewhere that baby Whites tree frogs may have trouble finding food in a bigger space. Can I go strait for the 45x45x60 or should I go for a smaller size and upgrade later and if so what size would be a better starter.
    I would really appreciate some opinions and guidance as I want to start out right.
    Oh and by the way, I would like to keep 2 frogs. Does that sound O.K in this size.
    Thanks.

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    100+ Post Member elly's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    I'd suggest going straight for the bigger tank. You can always feed crickets in a tall, smooth sided bowl or tong-feed. It might be good to have a plastic bin with a ventilated lid or something to keep the frog while you clean the tank, though.

    Most important things with these frogs is to make sure the temperature and humidity can be maintained in the tank. Also providing non-chlorinated water. (I don't suggest distilled for these amphibians though.)

    All substrates have good and bad points. Changing coconut fiber/etc all the time can get expensive. Paper towels are pretty clean, but if you don't change them very frequently they grow bacteria easily. I went with the living tank: a drainage layer with a terrarium soil mix with live plants. That way the plants take up the ammonia created by the frogs and the soil never needs changing. Even that isn't perfect though, especially if you end up with some kind of parasite in the tank, it can multiply. That's what happened to me. Still, lots of people have had living tanks for years with no problems.

    A few more considerations about this species: they can live into their twenties/ late teens. You might need to care for them for a while. They do call at night (to me it sounds like a distant dog bark.) You'll also need to make sure you have a reliable source of insects. These frogs seem to do well on nothing but crickets, but a calcium/multivitamin should help keep them healthy. It might not hurt to check and see if there's an exotic vet in your area, just in case.

    That's about it, except for lighting. It's controversial because these are nocturnal animals but I've been linked a newer study which suggests it might help with bone density. Some lower wattage UVB light might help. I'd just make sure the frogs had a place to hide from the light if they want.

    Also, yeah with a tank that size two frogs should fit. I have two frogs in the same sized tank.

    I know this all probably sounds like a lot. But I think this covers the major stuff.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Thank you so much for all the helpful advice, it is very much appreciated.
    After your explanation of the various substrates I think I am going to go with soil substrate with artificial plants for now.
    I was looking at one called E-Coco which says it is coco peat and coconut husk which is actually advertised for whites tree frogs but I like to just check.Would this one be suitable. If not which ones are the best?
    As far as the life span and having to look after them for a long time that is absolutely fine by me. I am a very keen Fancy goldfish keeper and they are a lot of hard work as I have 4 big tanks which I have to do large water changes on a weekly basis with a syphon tube and buckets because I can't have a water changing system but I love my fish so I do it religiously. I wont take a pet on on a whim so fully understand they are for a long time.
    The crickets wont be a problem. I have a local Aquatic/pet store near to me and they always have loads of live feeder insects.
    I will now go straight for the 45x45x60 vivarium. To be honest it is better for me as I didn't really want to have the expense of having to upgrade.
    Anyway, thanks again for all your help and advice.

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    Member LydiasMom's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    I've been using the e- coco substrate and it's been really good. We got mites and I had to bake all of it, but you'd have to do that with soil too.

    Live plants really do a lot for your critter friends, physically and mentally/emotionally. So, I'd recommend cultivating live plants to keep the ammonia and other noxious chemicals that can gather in the tank down. Also for the happiness of your frogs. Stress can kill them and live plants help them to not stress

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Hi LydiasMom,
    just a question, how do you get mites? do they come in on the frog or substrate or some other way.
    That sounds like a rude question but it isn't meant to be, I just want to know as much as I can before I start out.
    Any advice is very much appreciated by anyone so thank you.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Quote Originally Posted by KayJoh View Post
    Hi LydiasMom,
    just a question, how do you get mites? do they come in on the frog or substrate or some other way.
    That sounds like a rude question but it isn't meant to be, I just want to know as much as I can before I start out.
    Any advice is very much appreciated by anyone so thank you.
    Not rude at all! There's actually a lot of kinds of mites and ways they can show up. They should not arrive from your frogs tho.

    Substrate can be a carrier, but the e-coco sterilizes so it's pretty safe. Soil is a big culprit when that's the carrier

    Plants. They need to be carefully rinsed off before being planned in your frogs home, no matter who you purchase them from, it's always best to check. And if you get plants from a flower or garden show be EXTRA thorough, because they're notorious for that issue. Also if you get any plants/ wood from nature it needs to be thoroughly cleansed.

    Your little friend's food. Crickets, even ants can carry a mite infection in on them.

    If you see mites you're going to need to do one of two things, disassemble and bake/ wash everything. Or remove all critters you don't want dead and use dry ice to bath the whole thing. The plants will love it, but anything that needs oxygen will die overnight. Make sure you don't gas yourself either and ventilate the tank properly before returning any oxygen dependant friends.

    Does that help?

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    I don't personally know that live plants are necessarily the best. Frogs do need somewhere to hide to prevent stress and fake plants can help with that. However it's nice that live plants help prevent ammonia buildup. Also, fake plants should be checked carefully for hard edges or exposed wires. They should be cleaned thoroughly from time to time.

    If you keep fancy goldfish, frogs shouldn't be too hard. Their water bowls need changing every day, or at least every two days. Or, I forgot to mention you can have a semi aquatic setup with a shallow layer of water on the bottom, a small filter, and plenty of places to climb out of the water.

    e-coco sounds like it would be good. I don't recommend rocks small enough to fit into the frog's mouth in the tank. I've seen cases where frogs ate rocks before. Seriously! I have no idea how they survive in the wild.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    You have both given me some very helpful information and some very good tips so thanks you both for all the help.
    I have decided I am definitely going to get some frogs now. I have been thinking about WTF's ever since seeing them for the first time about a year ago and doing a lot of reading but there were a few things I wasn't clear about but you have both helped loads.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Quote Originally Posted by KayJoh View Post
    You have both given me some very helpful information and some very good tips so thanks you both for all the help.
    I have decided I am definitely going to get some frogs now. I have been thinking about WTF's ever since seeing them for the first time about a year ago and doing a lot of reading but there were a few things I wasn't clear about but you have both helped loads.
    I'm really glad! I'm a neophyte, myself, but I've been learning a lot! Feel free to ask me anything you need help with! Worst case scenario I'll have to tell you that I don't know

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    This post went wrong so have reposted.
    Last edited by KayJoh; July 22nd, 2018 at 05:09 AM. Reason: computer malfunctioning

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    I know I have said this before but I really do appreciate the help. I actually hate coming onto forums because I don't want to be a pain in the butt to anyone. BUT... having said that your responses have raised a few more questions.
    I have now decided that I would like to go down the planted route, they do look nice don't they! My first question is I know that you need your drainage layer but do you have to, from time to time, syphon the bottom right out to keep things nice and fresh?
    Also am I right that you need a clean up crew and if so how do you ensure that they don't bring anything nasty in with them?
    My plants will obviously be in before I get the frogs so is there anything I need to do for the plants until the frogs go in or will water be enough until the frogs arrive?
    Lastly just seen something about cycling the tank. What does that mean? I know all about cycling a fancy goldfish tank but don't have a clue with this.
    Can't tell you how much all your advice is helping already so again THANK YOU. X
    Last edited by KayJoh; July 22nd, 2018 at 06:49 AM.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    All of the above covers whites treefrog care very thoroughly. But yes you are right to ask about the cleanup crew and substrate. Here’s what I use.
    1. Bottom drainage layer of clay or leca balls
    2. Layer of vinyl screen as a substrate barrier
    3. Layer of ABG mix as substrate
    4. Layer of leaf litter such as magnolia or live osk
    5. Add springtails and isopods
    6. Let the tank cycle for two weeks to a month.

    Cycling a vivarium means allowing the cleanup crew time to establish itself. Also it allows you to tweet and issues with heating or lighting before you obtain and introduce your frogs.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Thank you Dan, that was all really helpful. I will make a note of all that and check it out.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Quote Originally Posted by KayJoh View Post
    Thank you Dan, that was all really helpful. I will make a note of all that and check it out.
    Sorry for disappearing, I was busy over the weekend with my family and being new to the forums checking in isn't a habit yet.

    Setting up is something I'm struggling with myself, though, since Lydia came into my life in a unique way I've kind of ended up with a cart before the horse scenario and am "learning on the job" as it were. So, seconding the thanks to you, Dan for this info!

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Don't apologise for disappearing, as a mum of five I know how hectic family life can be.
    Well, I have started my froggy journey now. I had a cabinet delivered today and tomorrow I am ordering the exo terra 45x45x60 vivarium. going to take things slowly and make sure I have everything I need before I start out. Its going to be a while yet before I can actually get any frogs but I'm sure they will be worth the wait.
    I read your intro post telling how you saved Lydia, she was a lucky girl but a bit unexpected for you no doubt. She is so cute. x

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    Hehe, definitely unexpected, I've always had cats, so Lydia is a whole new experience!
    **edit And thank you! She really is adorable! She has such a loving and playful personality! And thank you for the understanding, so often people feel entitled to one's time and with new folk one never knows where they stand on such things until they tell you

    Would you have the time and inclination to post updates showing your set up process? Folk always seem to post the established vivarium, but never the growing pains portion.

    Lydia's set up right now is apparently sub optimal, as it's just a layer of the e-coco several inches deep with moss and the chameleon plants and a dish pool. So, I need to learn about setting up a proper vivarium for her. I realise your frogs have slightly different needs, but seeing how one physically goes about it and the process would be super informative for me and likely many others as well!

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    I have personally not had to drain my drainage layer, though I came very close last winter because it was extra cold and I had to heat a lot, then spray more to make up for lost humidity.

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    Default Re: 2 quick White tree frog questions

    I would have posted regular updates on set up progress but I have done a complete turnaround again and decided I don't think the planted route is for me at this time. I have decided to go with fake plants for now and change substrate monthly and do daily spot cleaning and daily or twice daily water changes.
    I was watching a few videos that lets just say didn't inspire confidence for the planted tank with certain pests and problems.
    I was looking and Exo terra do some nice fake plants and I just feel that at this time this is the best route for me.
    I still appreciate all the help I have had so far about planted vivariums as I think one day I will probably take the plunge.
    There is still obviously a lot to learn and I have been having a good read of some of the post on here.
    My husband has actually ordered me my Exo terra tank tonight so we are on our way.
    I will be sure to take your advice (elly) and carefully inspect any fake plants for wires or sharp edges.

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