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Thread: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

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    Default HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Our Gray Tree Frog seems to be showing signs of advanced MBD. Can we reverse it?! Help!

    He is sitting on the bottom of the tank, unable to move his back legs. They lay limp. It still appears that he can still move and kind of get his bearing with his torso/head. This advanced stage happened very quickly. One day he was up on the side of that tank like he usually is, the next day he was sitting on the bottom, not moving. It has been three days, he is moving less and less. The back of his body is starting to look bloated. I want to save him and have him back to normal.

    Is it too late? Can we reverse it?!

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashleytm2015 View Post
    Our Gray Tree Frog seems to be showing signs of advanced MBD. Can we reverse it?! Help!

    He is sitting on the bottom of the tank, unable to move his back legs. They lay limp. It still appears that he can still move and kind of get his bearing with his torso/head. This advanced stage happened very quickly. One day he was up on the side of that tank like he usually is, the next day he was sitting on the bottom, not moving. It has been three days, he is moving less and less. The back of his body is starting to look bloated. I want to save him and have him back to normal.

    Is it too late? Can we reverse it?!
    It may or may not be too late. He needs vitamins and calcium which could work. I'm not sure if you knew or were using this when you fed him but get some crickets or something slow like waxworms and go get a vitamin with D3 and cover the insect with it and present it to the frog. Make sure he eats it and give him a few of the feeders as much as he will eat and then wait and see how he does the next two days then get a calcium without D3 and cover the insect in it and feed it to the frog like you did with the vitamin. The Zoo Med products can be found at many pet stores and work for me.

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  4. #3

    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Wardog View Post
    It may or may not be too late. He needs vitamins and calcium which could work. I'm not sure if you knew or were using this when you fed him but get some crickets or something slow like waxworms and go get a vitamin with D3 and cover the insect with it and present it to the frog. Make sure he eats it and give him a few of the feeders as much as he will eat and then wait and see how he does the next two days then get a calcium without D3 and cover the insect in it and feed it to the frog like you did with the vitamin. The Zoo Med products can be found at many pet stores and work for me.

    Sent from my BLN-L24 using Tapatalk
    Thanks so much for the input. I did find two products that I started using: Fluker's Repta Calcium (with D3) and Fluker's Liquid Calcium. We have been using them for a few days. My frog seems to have more bearing, he has at least been able to tuck his legs beneath him, and pivot. Before when I created this post, his legs were sprawled out behind him, and he wasn't even moving them back. I put the crickets food source near him, so the crickets are close enough for him to eat. I am pretty sure he has eaten a few. Also, since he can't make it to water, I spray him. He does seem better than when I made the first post. When I made the first post, I was worried he wouldn't make it through the night. I am happy that he has made it through the week, and appears to be stronger. I am happy to nurse him, and do whatever it takes to have him survive, but I worry that he's in a lot of pain, discomfort, and suffering. He has not passed any food in at least a week, unless it's beneath him, since hes been in the same spot. I am afraid to move him because he seems so fragile.

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashleytm2015 View Post
    Thanks so much for the input. I did find two products that I started using: Fluker's Repta Calcium (with D3) and Fluker's Liquid Calcium. We have been using them for a few days. My frog seems to have more bearing, he has at least been able to tuck his legs beneath him, and pivot. Before when I created this post, his legs were sprawled out behind him, and he wasn't even moving them back. I put the crickets food source near him, so the crickets are close enough for him to eat. I am pretty sure he has eaten a few. Also, since he can't make it to water, I spray him. He does seem better than when I made the first post. When I made the first post, I was worried he wouldn't make it through the night. I am happy that he has made it through the week, and appears to be stronger. I am happy to nurse him, and do whatever it takes to have him survive, but I worry that he's in a lot of pain, discomfort, and suffering. He has not passed any food in at least a week, unless it's beneath him, since hes been in the same spot. I am afraid to move him because he seems so fragile.
    You can try and soak the frog in a cup or something small that is not deeper then his head. If he soaks it's easier for him to pass the food and keep feeding him and using the supplements! Let me know if the soak works. You can do it as much as you want but once every other night or so is good like after you feed him would be a good time and when the frog becomes active at least later in the evening when it should be active will be great.

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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Thanks for the input. I am very happy to report, he is doing much better! I am so surprised, he looked very bad when I made the post. Not only does he look stronger, but he's able to move to the water dish on his own. Cleaning his tank, I realize he's passing his food. The back segment of back legs and toes still don't look strong though. Not sure if its me or not, but his back thighs look swollen too. He's now strong enough to squirm and flinch when I'm feeding him and cleaning his tank, and seems much happier in general. All of the nursing and caring is paying off. I'm still open to any other suggestions that would help him get stronger. I hope to see him strong enough to stick to the side of the tank again, (that's what he used to do all the time).

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Quote Originally Posted by ashleytm2015 View Post
    Thanks for the input. I am very happy to report, he is doing much better! I am so surprised, he looked very bad when I made the post. Not only does he look stronger, but he's able to move to the water dish on his own. Cleaning his tank, I realize he's passing his food. The back segment of back legs and toes still don't look strong though. Not sure if its me or not, but his back thighs look swollen too. He's now strong enough to squirm and flinch when I'm feeding him and cleaning his tank, and seems much happier in general. All of the nursing and caring is paying off. I'm still open to any other suggestions that would help him get stronger. I hope to see him strong enough to stick to the side of the tank again, (that's what he used to do all the time).
    Two things that you can do now. Keep doing the same cycles of feeding but the crickets feed them fish flakes and bird seed and put some of the vitamin in the food for the crickets. You should make a small food pile in a bin you keep the crickets in so you add the fish flakes then vitamin then bird seed. If you feed the crickets the vitamin and they eat the food (which they will) it will make them very nutritious for him. It would be like eating a full course meal for a human. After you see the crickets eat the food wait a day or two and then feed them so they digest the vitamin and food. That should make a big difference. This part is important. You can buy Pedyalite but you need THE CLEAR PEDYALITE. NO FLAVOR. You can put this in a cup and just add a little bit and let the frog soak for about 20 minutes. Keep feeding waxworms mealworms and whatever else it will eat but days you feed crickets feed something else with them and when you wait for the crickets to eat the food give different feeders. You can buy waxworms earthworms and mealworms at Walmart. You can try Repti Worms from Petco or PetSmart. One thing you can try is to introduce UVB lighting but you might want to try the other steps first. The feeding crickets and a varied diet for the frog and the Pedyalite as well as what you've been doing is most important. I'm glad he's doing better!

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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Thanks for the message. I did try the clear pedialyte. He is doing better, but I haven't noticed any more strides in the ability for him to move his back legs and toes. However, he is in a daily routine of going to the water bowl, sitting in his spot, and "hanging" on the side of the tank, as far as his front arms can reach (only front arms, not back legs). I would be interested in adding a light to his tank. I don't know much about it, but if it will help, I'm willing to try. I know he's nocturnal, so not sure if it would be put on during day or night.

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    You can try a UVB during the day. He may actually go up to it or climb under it to bask and get ray's from it. Just give him time to get back to normal he may have been very bad. Is he looking healthier?

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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Are there any updates on your little one? I hope they have recovered

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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Hello! Thanks for the messages. He is hunting and hydrating in water everyday, and in a daily routine that seems to make him happy. He has a lot of upper body strength, he's able to hold up his torso high and get around with no back legs. I've seen him trying to hang on the side of the tank, his grips still worked on front arms. His back legs are not strong though. It has been so good to see him prosper and hang on for the past month. I thought the day he couldn't walk, we would loose him. It was fast and sudden, and I didn't think that I would get to have him around, so I am very happy that we did. He was a rescue frog that moved with us from the suburbs to the city accidentally with our luggage (he was living in our houseplant, we didn't even realize until 2 months of city living). It was approaching winter, we did not want to put him out in the cold, let alone it was the city. We said when we move to the country we will set him free near the pond near our home. Then we moved there, and saw the herons eating frogs, so could not bear to let him be eaten by a heron. So he has been with us for almost three years. We don't know how long he was living in the wild before that, or if he was exposed to any environmental toxins, or what his situation was. When we found him, he was adult size. He may be dying of old age, we don't know. When I googled "frog back legs not moving" MBD came up, and that's how I figured it could be that. I still think it might be, his back legs do look swollen to me. He is a survivor frog, he does not seem to want to give up. So even though he is not 100%, he is doing much better, and I am watching him carefully everyday to make sure he is OK.

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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Just as a precaution, did you do even a cursory check for spinal trauma? If he fractured his spine it could also be the problem. Note, I'm obviously not saying it's definitely that our definitely not mbd. But if you've raised his calcium and he's not recovering the use of his legs, it could be a different issue. It also could have been both. A spinal injury would also be more likely with mbd

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    I'm glad to hear that your frog is doing better. If the frog is older it might take a long time to recover or it might not recover. If the mbd was that bad which will what it sounds like to me understand it's been really hard on the frog. Keep doing what your doing and maybe provide UVB lights for the frog that could help some too. How is the humidity level for the frog? If you raise the humidity that could help the frog to become more active and with hydration. Just give the frog time anything is possible. You can try to soak the frog in water still. Were the back legs always like that for the frog?

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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Thanks for the messages. The recovery is slow but getting better and better. Frog is starting to climb, which is very nice to see. He doesn't climb the glass on the tank like he used to, but is climbing and sitting on the plants. I've attached some pictures. His back legs are not 100%, it's hard to explain. His back legs can rotate in the hip socket, but joints are not flexing easily or fluidly. I've seen him sit on a leaf with his front arms tucked with bearing, but back legs hanging off dangling behind him. Sometimes, I have seen his legs tucked under him though. Not sure if it's just easier some days than others. I would like to introduce the light, anything to help. To answer your question, no he was not always like this. He was in seemingly perfect health when suddenly one day I found him on the bottom of the tank, practically face planted, not moving. I thought it was all over, but with following advice, his health is improving. Not sure if he had a fall, broke bones, no idea. His appearance looks fine, except for back legs. Not sure if it is just me, but they seem swollen or curved. I've noticed him sitting in the water a lot lately. Not sure if it's a thing or not.
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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    I'm so glad to hear he's been using his back legs somewhat, and if you've introduced calcium into his water that sounds like a good reason for him to be spending extra time there.

    You could also try picking up a small pack of vita-bug superworms and feeding him one or two a day by tongs. They're packed with nutrients and I've heard a lot of critters really love them! I know my Lydia gets super excited as soon as she sees the container in my hand!

    Best of luck and please keep updating!

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    100+ Post Member Larry Wardog's Avatar
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    Default Re: HELP! Advanced MBD in Gray Tree Frog?!

    Quote Originally Posted by LydiasMom View Post
    I'm so glad to hear he's been using his back legs somewhat, and if you've introduced calcium into his water that sounds like a good reason for him to be spending extra time there.

    You could also try picking up a small pack of vita-bug superworms and feeding him one or two a day by tongs. They're packed with nutrients and I've heard a lot of critters really love them! I know my Lydia gets super excited as soon as she sees the container in my hand!

    Best of luck and please keep updating!
    I actually keep both species together and I have learned and heard that gray tree frogs should never eat superworms. The worms can bite hard and could harm the frogs and they are very large. It's not bad for one or two but of all things mealworms and superworms should only be a small part of a toad diet. The superworm has too many hard parts and it's hard for the toads to digest them. They can bite and harm the toad too actually. Lizards chew their food so it doesn't hurt them to eat these but amphibians should not be given too many. I'm not trying to be a stickler I've heard many bad things about superworms and amphibians. Some say they can chew through the frogs and toads stomach.

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