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Thread: Pyxicephalus Differences

  1. #21
    100+ Post Member onedge30's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Alright, Terry. Now that we have your head spinning, how about your eyes crosssing!

    Here is something I have been working on. I think they are correct. I had trouble understanding the interorbital bar.




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    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    WOW!

    That's great Your photos and annotations are spectacular. One problem, it is P. edulis that has the interorbital bar. The interorbital bar is a faded, light stripe that goes across the top of the head connecting the two eyes, kinda like: 0----0. I think a great African bullfrog guide can be written if we pool all of our resources together. If you or others would like to volunteer, let me know. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Jeff, are you sure that's an edulis? It doesn't look like it to me - looks like something else.
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    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Pyxicephalus obbianus Calabresi, 1927

    Endemic to Somalia
    Description: similar to P. adspursus; tympanum larger than the eye and lies very close to it. Some individuals lack the vertebral stripe.

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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by John View Post
    Jeff, are you sure that's an edulis? It doesn't look like it to me - looks like something else.
    Well, John, looks like we have a lot of work to be done. Hopefully, we can get enough people involved so we can identify these frogs properly.

  7. #26
    Member Tofuman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    That's a great description Thanks allot.

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    100+ Post Member onedge30's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Terry - Yes, I am volunteering!

    Damn. So close with the illustration, but just missed the mark. Ok, now that you have explained the interorbital bar. (but isn't 'inter' - inside? so inside the eye?) It has always looked to me, that adspersus has a very individual iris. Is there a name for that type of adspersus eye?

    John .... I hoped that that was an adult edulis. After all the pictures I have been looking at, I really had hoped. Shoot!!! Now that you say that.... I think I understand. I can try again.

    IMHO(with what little I know) adspersus is kind of unique, but edulis and obbianus should look similar? The physical descriptions only work on the adults, not the babies or juveniles? We really need to lock down pictures of the 'original' described species? But on all counts ..... count me in. I can work on more graphics as needed.

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    Founder John's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    The frog on the right is adspersus.

    Terry and everyone - I encourage you to search the forum for photos posted over the past 2 years and pick the ones that best illustrate what you're trying to show. Then post the links and I can work it all into an article and credit everyone involved as authors. What do you think?
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    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by onedge30 View Post
    Terry - Yes, I am volunteering!

    Damn. So close with the illustration, but just missed the mark. Ok, now that you have explained the interorbital bar. (but isn't 'inter' - inside? so inside the eye?) It has always looked to me, that adspersus has a very individual iris. Is there a name for that type of adspersus eye?
    Thanks for volunteering. Let's take John's advice and look through all the photos of Pyxicephalus that are posted on the form. We'll need to pick the best ones for the article. I was also baffled with interorbital. I remembered that the prefix "inter" means to cross over boundaries and "orbital" refered to the eye, so the light bulb in my brain went off and realized the bar is between the eyes, not within the eye area.

    Quote Originally Posted by onedge30 View Post
    John .... I hoped that that was an adult edulis. After all the pictures I have been looking at, I really had hoped. Shoot!!! Now that you say that.... I think I understand. I can try again.

    IMHO(with what little I know) adspersus is kind of unique, but edulis and obbianus should look similar? The physical descriptions only work on the adults, not the babies or juveniles? We really need to lock down pictures of the 'original' described species? But on all counts ..... count me in. I can work on more graphics as needed.
    Great job anyway. You have the right idea, just wrong frog. The key descriptions work for adult frogs and non-hybrids. I understand that juvenile P. edulis also has the white spot in the tympanum. That might be the only way to tell the difference between juvenile species. The frog on the left looked like edulis to me, the spot on the tympanum is either round or crescent shape, according to Carruthers. But, John is the pyxie guru

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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by tgampper View Post
    The frog on the left looked like edulis to me, the spot on the tympanum is either round or crescent shape, according to Carruthers. But, John is the pyxie guru
    Well this is the thing - I don't claim to be a guru on Pyxies, just that I know when something is not a Pyxicephalus adspersus. After that, I probably know less than you Terry. Do you think the one on the left is Pyxicephalus edulis?
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    100+ Post Member onedge30's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    John, this is edulis?


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    100+ Post Member Ebony's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    What a beautiful photo.

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    100+ Post Member onedge30's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by tgampper View Post
    Thanks for volunteering. Let's take John's advice and look through all the photos of Pyxicephalus that are posted on the form. We'll need to pick the best ones for the article. I was also baffled with interorbital. I remembered that the prefix "inter" means to cross over boundaries and "orbital" refered to the eye, so the light bulb in my brain went off and realized the bar is between the eyes, not within the eye area.
    Terrry, it is "interocular" bar. According to Channing.

  16. #34
    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Quote Originally Posted by onedge30 View Post
    Terrry, it is "interocular" bar. According to Channing.
    You're right, Jeff

    Carruthers and du Preez calls it "interorbital". I hope it's just a matter of semantics.

  17. #35
    100+ Post Member Kevin1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    WOW did I miss a lot over the weekend. I agree with John that the frog pictured looks different from an edulis. In my opinion it looks physically like a hybrid between the two. Or more of an inter-grade. Something like whats happened between the 3 budgett's frog species. Edit- So the frog in the comparison is obbianus? That would make sence.

    Jeff the last picture you posted is an edulis. I know it was directed to john(sorry) but I'm sure he would agree.

    Nice diagrams by the way.

    I have lots of pictures of chubbz I would be happy to donate to you all I'll send them to Jeff tonight. His younger pictures are very good quality(it was before my good camera broke).
    I'm very excited about this project we're starting. I'm happy we're taking action to try and get to the bottom of this as a forum.

    If there's anything else you all need let me know. I have a few pyxie pictures I've "collected off the internet from places. I had hundreds of different pyxies pictures on my old computer..but it broke. lol
    Last edited by Kevin1; August 23rd, 2010 at 11:54 PM. Reason: To Include a question about something I overlooked. :)

  18. #36
    Founder John's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    The frog in Jeff's picture is more like what I know as edulis. Terry, do you have any of Carruthers or Passmore's books to hand? I know the book they wrote together in the late 90s has both species pictured extensively.
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  19. #37
    100+ Post Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    My P. Edulis,

    I believe it is male?






  20. #38
    Moderator tgampper's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Thanks, Malachi, for your great pix of P.edulis. If you would like to contribute to our project, you are most welcome.

    I will be busy today and won't be back until this evening. I will look in all my African field guides for a good description on P. edulis. I also have Roedel's book which has a detailed description of edulis.

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  22. #39
    100+ Post Member Malachi's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    I would love to. I can bust out the good camera and can get some better shots from different angles as well. Let me know what you need.

  23. #40
    100+ Post Member onedge30's Avatar
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    Default Re: Pyxicephalus Differences

    Wow! I just received 3 different emails from associates in South Africa who have information on the genus Pyxicephalus .... and the photos are coming in DIFFERENT!!!

    As soon as I can organize what is happening, or try to clarify what photos are being thrown around, I will let you all know. But it looks like what we are calling edulis may not be. Very weird.

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