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Thread: FBT Vivarium Preparations

  1. #21
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Honestly, I've never seen platic egg crate ANYWHERE. I've only ever seen it online. Before looking into false bottoms some time ago I didn't even know it existed or what it was. Maybe someone else will know where to find it. I worry about the gravel, though, as it is very heavy. It'll probably be fine, but that thin glass makes me worry. LECA/hydroballs are another option, but is probably too expensive and can also be difficult to find in retail, unless you have a good reptile/vivarium supply in your area. Personally I made a small leap of faith and bought ODLA clay pellets from IKEA, as they seem to be normal clay with no additives, and they wouldn't be in direct contact with frogs anyway. They are around 6$ for 4.5 quarts. I found a post on Dendroboard by someone stating they used it, so I decided to try it, but I feel it would be irresponsible of me to recommend them before having used them for a while.
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Thank you! I might--might--have found a store that actually has the egg crates, and I'm gonna head out in a few minutes to see, but I'm not holding my breath. If I don't find it, I'll probably go with the hydroballs... if I can find those.

    Ugh. I just wanna get started building this thing! But, without the false bottom, all I can do is move stuff around and imagine it.

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    100+ Post Member daybr4ke's Avatar
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    I hope you find the egg crate! Good luck!
    Edit: Did some googling and found a useful thread on another site.
    https://www.reef2reef.com/threads/wh...ggcrate.98495/
    If you don't find it where you're going to look maybe this will help. If not, there's always hydroballs!
    1 Male Giant African Bullfrog
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Oh my gosh, I found the egg crate.

    Somehow--somehow--I managed to search our Lowes for two hours and missed them. Goodness. Seriously, if anyone is reading this in the future, or lurking, or whatever--the egg crate stuff is never in the lighting section, which makes no sense. You'll absolutely find it in the wood section, by the doors and windows and planks. What the heck. Also, handily, Lowes has a map of each store they have online, and it'll show you right where the thing you want is.

    It literally took me five minutes to get into the store, find the egg crate, and leave. What?

    So now, finally, I can start building my vivarium. Bwah.

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Hello, me again!

    My vivarium is practically complete. Plants in, substrate in, gravel in. There's been, ah, a couple bumps along the way: making a false bottom with a huge opening like I did was probably not the smartest thing for a first-time effort, but, it's mostly working. Mostly. So, here's my problem.

    Between the large plastic tub and the wall of egg crate that's holding the substrate back, there's about a half-inch gap that goes down to the false bottom. Filling it with substrate isn't possible, because I have to remove the tub clean and refill it, and it'll all just fall into the open area of the false bottom. I thought about putting cork over the top of it, but, cork is a bit curvy, and has instead made some neat caves that lead to the gaps. (It looks nice, though, so, there's that.) Is there something else I could use that would be easy to replace each time I remove the water tub? Pond filter? More egg crate wedges?

    Any suggestions would be most welcome.

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Hey, glad to hear things are going well! I'm slightly confused, though and I'd love it if you could post a picture or two if your setup. The reason I'm a little confused is that you mentioned space between the false bottom and the egg crate. Egg crate is actually unnecessary if you use gravel to make a drainage layer, since you just put in 2-3inches of the drainage material(I saw you asked about this in a previous post and I replied to the thread but got carried away while typing and didn't answer the question. Sorry about that!) then use a substrate divider(like fine window screen) between it and the substrate to prevent the dirt from being washed down and siphoned out. I had intended to post this when you were mixing your soil up and getting ready to add your plants, but I guess now it is late. I should have included this earlier.
    A few things need to be done with plants before you add them to you vivarium since frogs will be living in it. The plants need to be bathed/rinsed, this is done in water or in a bleach-water solution. This removed old soil that often inludes things that are undesirable like perlite, to kill and remove any pests on the plants and to remove any chemicals that may be on the plants.
    http://www.neherpetoculture.com/plan...singprocedures
    A lot of useful information such as the bleach-water ratio are included.
    I don't know exactly what the effects of the gap are, but I feel as if it may make the soil dry faster. I don't know if it's a problem, so maybe it won't matter at all lol
    1 Male Giant African Bullfrog
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Aaah, sorry for the confusion! It made sense in my head, but, without seeing the tank I understand why "omg there's a gap" could be hard to understand. So, I took pictures.



    So, this is my tank! That big plastic tub is their water dish (currently empty, and will have some fake plants and the like going into it, as well as a slope to make exiting easier). And, maybe, you can see the gap I'm talking about, between the water dish and the egg crate wall holding the substrate back.





    Here are the close-ups of it. The cork doesn't lie flat on top of it, unfortunately, so the toads could get under there and get stuck in that crevice. I've been thinking about adding, like, a bit of egg crate in there, or maybe some type of foam filter. Anything put in there will tumble out when I remove the water tub, so, it can't be more substrate, or gravel. Larger rocks might work, because I'd at least be able to put the rocks back when the tub goes back in.

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Thanks for the pictures. I had a totally wrong idea of what was going on. In thought there was a horizontal gap under the substrate. Boy was I off I was thinking of ways to fix this: First, you have the fill-in idea like you were talking about. I actually don't know how well that will work.
    My own ideas deal with the depth of the container. If you are up for it, you can cut the bin down or buy a new bin. My girlfriend suggested using a plastic litter box for cats instead. You might even look into how much it would cost to have a custom bin made by a place like TAP plastics, since I have heard they make custom plastic stuff, even weird stuff like props for costuming(The example being an odd shaped sword from an anime.) for a reasonable price. I figure since figure since they'll make a weirdly curved sword shaped peice of plastic with a hole through the middle, a simple dish/tray should be pretty easy...I actually may look into them myself soon for a dish for my African Bullfrog. They might even be able to make one side ramped lol. I've also seen some shallower plastic bins, but most are only slightly less deep. I'll keep trying to think of some way(s) to help solve this. Good luck!
    1 Male Giant African Bullfrog
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  14. #29
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    So, "preparations" is no longer a fitting word, as I am now the proud owner of three Fire Belly Toads. (They're currently hiding around the tank, and get flighty when I peer at them, so, no pictures yet.)

    I have one final question.

    I live in North Dakota, so, temperatures vary between boiling lava and surface of Pluto depending on the time of year. Currently, each week it's flipping between mid-80's to low-60's, and sometimes to high-40's. My tank has been sitting in the low-60's, which is just above the minimum for what these toads need to be at. By next week, we're supposed to hit mid-80 again. At the extreme ends of the temperature spectrum, the house temperature gets set to 72 and stay there, so, the tank will be fine for the majority of year. It's just these few weeks when the weather is weird that have been a wild ride trying to decide if I need to heat my tank or not. So, before I do something foolish, like grab my parent's seedling heat mat and try to affix it to the back of my tank, I figured I should ask if I actually need to.

    Do I need to heat my tank? At what temperature should I get concerned? If I do need to heat my tank, what method should I use, since I have a rather deep false bottom and thick layer of substrate?

    Thank you for all the help so far. Getting these guys would've been a lot more nerve-wracking without all the help.

    EDIT: I realize I said "one question" and proceeded to ask fifty thousand. Ha ha.

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Hi! I cant wait to see some pictures. I've read they are sensitive to heat, and that heat above the low 80's for prolonged periods can kill them. I checked, and a lot if guides say around 65+ is minimum safe temperature, but I also found a couple saying daytime temps should be around 72-79f, with a slight dip being acceptable at night. They'll probably be fine, but you could get a heating pad and a reptile thermostat. The heating pad can be attached to the tank and then plugged into the thermostat, which will monitor the tank with probes to make sure the temp stays pretty constant, it can even turn it off if it starts getting too hot. This would make sure you have a heating option going if the temp were to drop and you werent home to turn on the house's thermostat(unless it turns on automatically if it gets too hot or too cold.) during the occasional high 40's you mentioned.
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Thank you! That's what I've heard, that it's more dangerous to overheat them than anything, but with how cold it can get, well, I thought'd ask. I'm not worried once winter actually hits, since at -30* the heat'll have to be on. XD It's just this weird period between summer and fall (and spring and summer, really) that's sorta a bear to work with.

    How would you recommend placing the heat mat? Underneath probably wouldn't work, because of the false bottom. I've heard about attaching it to the side, but also that it could get too hot for the frogs to be near. Perhaps a smaller heat mat, placed on the side and "beneath" the substrate, so that none, or a minimal amount of the mat itself is visible from the front. And I'm not sure how to make a heat mat stay on the side? Electrical tape, perhaps?

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Heating pads usually stay okay on the sides(well, some of mine haven't, one small one peeled off.), but I've only used them on plastic(which technically you aren't supposed to.). I'm actually not sure exactly where to put it. I think they adhere better to glass. I don't know if the false bottom would necessarily be a problem for using a heat pad, but the thin glass creates a problem since heating pads usually come with little rubber "legs" with adhesive backing to create space between the heat pad and the area below the tank to avoid heat buildup, which can increase the risk of fire. I feel like placing the weight of the fully constructed tank on 4 small points could go bad, so your idea if placing the heat pad low on the side may be the best option, but side-mounting doesn't produce a lot of heat compared to putting it on the bottom. I have heard it works better with glass, however. I'd wait until some other members weigh in on It.
    Last edited by daybr4ke; September 16th, 2017 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Spelling
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  20. #33
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Hey, IMO I would use a dome with a heat bulb attached to a thermostat to heat you tank. With the drainage layer placing it on the bottom probably wont work to well, the air will be 75f and the ground is going to be a lot higher. And if the ground gets to hot it may warm up the water because the dish is sunken into the ground making the water an uncomfortable temp for the frogs. I heated mine with a bulb and had it suspended over the middle of the tank right over top of a nice flat rock or over my turtle bridge, which ever one I picked to have in the middle. This way they could sit on the rock and warm up under the light but also have the option to be cooler off to the sides in the water and on land. UTH's don't work all that well on the side of the tank. In order for it to actually make a big difference in the enclosure you have to build a wall around 3 sides of the tank with the UTH in the middle, this way it traps the heat against the glass so it doesn't just go up into the air. Its pretty much the same idea of being under the tank were the matt is stuck to the bottom in between the tank and table it is set on. And when on the side like this you leave a gap on each side so the air flow can get around the whole 3 sides. I have this down to a science because this is how I keep my pacman frogs because they burrow to cool so I don't like having it on the bottom, but for firebellies or treefrogs I would just use a bulb because its the easiest method.

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  22. #34
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    You're probably right, I've found heating pads to be pretty annoying and when side mounted ineffectual as well. I worried a heat lamp would be too hot, but with a thermostat to keep it from getting too warm it'd be fine, especially with a mid-range or low wattage bulb.
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Here's a diagram if you were having a hard time trying to picture what I meant about the 3 sided wall. And ya I think a 40 or 50 watt bulb would do the trick, Just don't get a a basking bulb like you would use in reptile cage. Or even a ceramic would work if you already have a light. Ceramics last way longer then bulbs I find.
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    Thank you very much! I think a ceramic bulb would work best for me--I have a UVB light already, and honestly I'm far more concerned about night temperatures than daytime, and wouldn't want to keep a light on all night for them.

    What wattage would you recommend for those? A quick look at Amazon shows anywhere from 25W to 150W. I assume I'd want one on the lower end, though not too low as to be ineffective. So, 50W? 60W? Is there a brand you recommend?

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    I've never used a ceramic heater. I'd bet on around 50-60w, unless someone else has a better idea. I figure it's a safe wattage, but with a thermostat it should be safe even if it's a bit much, anyway.
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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    I ordered a 60w CHE with a thermostat and lamp. My tank is at about 61*F today, so, figured it was for the best. Poor dudes. It'll be here Tuesday.

    Now I just have to figure out when these guys will want to start eating. Probably when the temperature increases.

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    From the pictures you put up if you didn't get the thermostat the 60 would have more then likely been to much judging by the distance from the lid to the ground, but with a thermostat you should be ok. And one more thing, make sure the dome you got has a ceramic fixture for the bulb to screw into and not plastic or something else. Ceramic heat emitters get pretty hot and it will melt plastic. I suggest you get a stand in the future that you can suspend the dome from, with it sitting right on top of the metal lid it is going to make the lid around the dome pretty hot and the dome itself will be hot so you don't want to have to pick it up every time you want to get inside. Wouldn't want you to burn yourself.

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    Default Re: FBT Vivarium Preparations

    I... never considered how hot the lamp would get. Luckily, my lamps (both) have ceramic fixtures, so I'm good there. But a stand is most definitely in my future. Me and hot things do not get along at all.

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