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Thread: Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

  1. #1
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    Unhappy Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

    Hey there,
    New to this forum, and I couldn't seem to find any answers to my problem about my FBT. I adopted him from someone who had him for 6 years. He was by himself in his tank which he's still in now, and when I took him home I noticed he was making his calls at night and did some more research and found that they do better in groups. I figured why not get another one....and maybe it will be a female and we can have some babies?
    I wanted to make the poor guy happy....
    Anyway, I got a new toad friend for him, and I think it's a female because he won't leave her the hell alone. He makes his mating calls ALL DAY LONG and attempts amplexus with her/him ALL THE TIME. She/he isn't having it, but also isn't very aggressive towards him. She/he sometimes makes little "leave me alone" chirp and slowly squeezes out of it. I felt bad for her so got another toad to kinda lessen the stress on her/him in an attempt to make things a little more pleasant in "Froggy Land."
    WELLLLL.....Now he's just annoying the f*** out of both of them, and I feel like they're all miserable because theyre both either not ready to mate if they're female, or just constantly annoyed by his attempts if they're male. Every time they come into the water, he "attacks" them and they hop away.
    I just don't want to cause any stress to these guys, but also want to know whether or not this is a natural behavior for male FBTs during mating season, or if he's just making these calls because he's feeling threatened by the new toads in HIS enclosure and is acting territorial towards them? When I separate him, he doesn't call as much, but moving him around stresses him out because he hates being handled. He's kind of a jerk LOL but I want what's best for them. Any suggestions??? Thanks!
    Sarah

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    Default Re: Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

    it's just natural behaviour, they breed at this time of year and don't need much stimulation other than suitable temps and lighting for this to happen. you might end up with eggs soon. you can cool them into the 60sF in winter for a few months this year and will prepare the females for this happening next year

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    Default Re: Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

    This situation sounds very familiar to me! I think the problem I have, and probably you too, is that the toads are experiencing different 'seasons' and are therefor in different moods. Your male is obviously feeling quite aroused but your other toads are probably not feeling like they are in the mating season. I think this happens when you get your toads from different places and so from different environments and then put them together in the same tank. For the one this could feel like the beginning of spring while for the other it could feel like autumn is kicking in compared to its' previous tank. For this reason I feel like the response that it is only natural is not completely true because obviously in nature these animals all experience the same conditions simultaneously.
    Because of this i am also a little worried about my toads. Only recently I bought a group of 4 from their previous owner and put my two toads that I've had for 15 years together with them in a MUCH bigger tank. Well my two oldies became crazy enthusiastic right away, especially one of them. He just won't give the others a break. It seems like the others are getting bullied the whole time, male or female he doesn't care, they can't go into the water without being jumped right away! THE WHOLE TIME! I'm hoping they will soon sync up more and live in harmony together. I'm curious how it's going in your tank now?

    BTW I am no expert this is just a theory but it made sense to me!

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    Default Re: Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

    He's still the same and the other toads are still constantly hiding from him
    The FBT that is housed with him that I suspect is female hardly even comes out from her hiding spot anymore.
    I just don't know what to do because he won't stop.
    I moved from San Francisco to LA where the temperatures are very different and nothing's changed. He only stops when I separate him and put him in a smaller carrier tank by himself overnight (so I can actually sleep at night). Any movement in the tank stimulates him to call and "attack." No eggs as the other 2 FBTs are very annoyed by him! Please any suggestions!?? What should I do??


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    Default Re: Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

    A simple answer to your question: Not much. One thing you could do is reduce the water level to just a couple cm to discourage breeding. Another thing you should really do is provide enough small hiding spots where only one toad would fit in. This way they can't be grabbed by others. In the last couple weeks I learned that remaining hidden all the time is very normal behavior for females. In my experience the only time they really come out is to eat and when they are ready to lay eggs. After which they will immediately return to their hiding spots. Their behavior might change when separated from the males although I doubt if they will ever be as active as the males, they just have different 'personalities'. As far as the males are concerned: Grabbing on to each other seems to be something in between sexual confusion and a dominance game. My males slowly synced up and now all 4 are pretty much 'intertwined' the whole time. Dominance seems to shift: one toad might be the one on top for a while but after some weeks another takes over in constantly grabbing the others. Their play may look very violent but on the long run they seem to be quite contempt with the situation. As long as they have the possibility to avoid all the harassment they should be fine.
    I just uploaded some videos of my toads and their mating behavior, very interesting to observe:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjtw-C-6Nmo

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_n2McDOy3o

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ff25R_wMZE8

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=esF1r7LAvDo

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    Default Re: Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

    Wow thank you sooo much for the info and the videos!! I figured it was a natural process, but was still a little concerned for the "victims."
    So far it's just one that is amplexing the others. It makes sense that the female would be hiding all day long! [emoji23]

    Do you have any experience in mixing variants? I've heard some say that certain color variants won't breed with others. All 3 of mine are different, but I'm still hoping for eggs. Right now they're just in a 10 gallon, but I'm working on an upgrade.


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    Default Re: Aggressive/Horny Male FBT!!

    We should differentiate between color variants and actual different species of bombina. Bombina orientalis, most common as a pet and probably the species that your frogs are, comes in different color varieties. First thing is the belly. In orientalis this should be orange to red colored. However, when bred in captivity their belly will stay yellow if not supplied with the right supplements. A yellow bellied bombina orientalis is of course still a 'full' orientalis and can breed with red bellied ones without a problem.
    Next, the color of their back. This varies from lime green to brown almost black even. Contrary to the coloration of their belly, their diet does not influence the coloration of their back so this is only determined by genes. However, just as with the belly, bombina orientalis with completely different back colors can and will breed without a problem.

    Then there is the difference between different species of bombina. For example there are species that will always have a yellow belly, species that have a red belly but are always brown on top, species that are much bigger than others, etc. The Dutch wikipedia page lists 5 different species of bombina. The English wikipedia page lists 8. This is because there is still some debate about some populations of bombina being a separate species or just hybrids. Here we see the answer to your question; hybrids, a mix between two different species of bombina, definitely are possibly and may even exist in the wild. So even a European species could breed with an Asian species.

    That being said it could very well be that certain different species won't put up with each other so well in a terrarium. For example, one species might be a bit more 'agressive' in their mating behaviour than others but this is pure speculation from my side. The one toad in the first video I posted being grabbed by the other one (in the first shot) has a yellow belly. When I bought this one the guy selling it to me assured me that is was just an orientalis that hadn't been fed color supplements. I was only a kid back then(this was 16 years ago, they can grow OLD!!) so I believed him right away. After some time I started to doubt; not only its belly color but also its overal shape seemed quite different than all my orientalis; a rounder head, bigger eyes, bigger and fatter belly and a slightly different call. I still don't know what I have and probably I will never know. However it could explain why this toad is in general more eager to breed than the others and can also be a bit more aggresive. Again this is all speculation. Regardless, at the moment they have seemed to find a balance and it looks like they live together in harmony.

    As a comforting thought for you; Since you are located in the US, I am 99% sure that all three of your toads are bombina orientalis since they are much easier to obtain there. Of course they still have different 'personalities' so there will always be ones more aggresive and ones more shy.

    Sorry for this very long answer I kind of got carried away. Anyway to conclude with a very short answer: All types of bombina are able to interbreed, so you don't need to worry about that!

    Oh yeah one more thing; both times I found eggs in the terarium I had been worried a lot about the female shortly before. She seemed very unhappy, especially the night before I found eggs, doing everything she could to get away from the males. I guess they just really need their rest to prepare for the eggs to come so your one toad hiding all the time might actually be a good sign!

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