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Thread: Drainage layer question

  1. #1

    Default Drainage layer question

    I'm planning on building a viv and I've come across scoria (lava rock?) being used as a drainage layer instead of, say, leca/clay balls.
    Scoria is cheap and so is very appealing to me right now, but I can't find many accounts of it being used and so i suspect there might be a good reason not to use it.

    So, is scoria no good for the drainage layer and if so why?
    If it is good, why is leca/clay balls so much more popular, what are the comparisons?

    Thanks for any help!



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  3. #2

    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Hmm. It says there is 1 reply but I can't see it?

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  4. #3
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    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Seems that the forum has been having technical issues the last four or so days and no one, including myself, have been able to reply to any posts or even view them while logged in. So hopefully that accounts for the lack of responses.

    I think you got some answers elsewhere, but just so I can throw in my opinion...........

    Most lava rock is probably inert. So certainly that will make it good for a drainage layer. It's porous and should favor the growth of beneficial bacteria which help maintain your water quality.

    The lava rock I've had in the past tends to be sharp, so I don't like it to be exposed to the frogs to crawl over. It's used in aquariums quite a bit. Not without it's nay-sayers though.

    It's probably more a question you should ask of a geologist. Is all lava rock created equal in terms of whether it does or does not leach bad stuff into the water?? I don't know. If I had a cheap source for lava rock compared to other options, I'd certainly try it and see.

  5. #4

    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by privet01 View Post
    Seems that the forum has been having technical issues the last four or so days and no one, including myself, have been able to reply to any posts or even view them while logged in. So hopefully that accounts for the lack of responses.

    I think you got some answers elsewhere, but just so I can throw in my opinion...........

    Most lava rock is probably inert. So certainly that will make it good for a drainage layer. It's porous and should favor the growth of beneficial bacteria which help maintain your water quality.

    The lava rock I've had in the past tends to be sharp, so I don't like it to be exposed to the frogs to crawl over. It's used in aquariums quite a bit. Not without it's nay-sayers though.

    It's probably more a question you should ask of a geologist. Is all lava rock created equal in terms of whether it does or does not leach bad stuff into the water?? I don't know. If I had a cheap source for lava rock compared to other options, I'd certainly try it and see.
    Thankyou privet01 for your response!

    I'm glad to hear about technical difficulties because I was wondering why it was so quiet and was a little disappointed about it.
    I hope it perks up soon!

    Thankyou for the info on lava rock. Does it crumble easily?

    Its sounds good.
    I'm also considering charcoal but I can't find much info on it as a drainage layer, and I would hesitate to use it in an aquarium filter (not that I use filters in my couple of tanks), but I do worry about its "absorbing" qualities. What else does it absorb other than "toxins". But then it does reach a saturation point so maybe that's no so bad.
    I also read about iron oxide coming out of clay balls on one site... Pick your poison I guess?

    Thanks!

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    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by Calayvie View Post
    I'm glad to hear about technical difficulties because I was wondering why it was so quiet and was a little disappointed about it.
    I hope it perks up soon!
    I think that the site was hacked a few years ago. It's never been quite the same since. There are still links that don't work properly and missing info. After my experience not being able to view posts, I wonder if that's been an issue for large segments of other users at various times and has further discouraged participation in the forum. It will be sad if such troubles shut it down, as I like the organization of the forum. But in the recent case I think only one other user was able to post during the four days I was getting the database errors. So I think it was very widespread.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calayvie View Post
    Thankyou for the info on lava rock. Does it crumble easily?
    That and other characteristics of lava rock and scoria from my understanding are dependent on the source. Some do, some don't. Same thing I'd imagine for whether it affects your water quality adversely or not. Still that wouldn't deter me from trying it if it is inexpensive. You can always redo the viv if your creatures appear to be sick and you can't blame something else. But if you can't bear that on your conscience then you should stick to things made expressly for herp and aquatic habitat. In my small ten gallon viv, I just use wash gravel. But that gets heavy quickly. So something lighter like scoria or leca will be a must for bigger vivs, unless I decide to just use a true false bottom. But then I feel like I loose a lot of biological water quality control. Maybe not, but I don't see much discussion of that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calayvie View Post
    I'm also considering charcoal but I can't find much info on it as a drainage layer, and I would hesitate to use it in an aquarium filter (not that I use filters in my couple of tanks)
    Charcoal...... activated, bbq briquettes or natural? briquettes intended for grills have clay binders that probably make it too gummy for vivs. But I've never messed with it in vivs so I don't know. Activated charcoal is sold for aquarium and other water filters. It has to be replaced regularly. I don't use a filter in my small viv. It only has a gallon of water so I just change it every 10 days or so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Calayvie View Post
    I also read about iron oxide coming out of clay balls on one site... Pick your poison I guess?
    Yeah..... I think that's the case. You just can't be positive what's in the stuff you are using considering every retailer is looking for the cheapest source. Also consider that their intended purpose for the product might not be your intended purpose. I mean, how likely is it that your supplier for scoria even thought about hazards to frogs when they bought this product for resale? But if you prefer finding cheaper alternatives like I do, then googling the internet can come up with a lot of information. Of course you have to weed through a lot of opinion... such as everything I just wrote.<<grin>>

  7. #6

    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by privet01 View Post
    I think that the site was hacked a few years ago. It's never been quite the same since. There are still links that don't work properly and missing info. After my experience not being able to view posts, I wonder if that's been an issue for large segments of other users at various times and has further discouraged participation in the forum. It will be sad if such troubles shut it down, as I like the organization of the forum. But in the recent case I think only one other user was able to post during the four days I was getting the database errors. So I think it was very widespread.
    That and other characteristics of lava rock and scoria from my understanding are dependent on the source. Some do, some don't. Same thing I'd imagine for whether it affects your water quality adversely or not. Still that wouldn't deter me from trying it if it is inexpensive. You can always redo the viv if your creatures appear to be sick and you can't blame something else. But if you can't bear that on your conscience then you should stick to things made expressly for herp and aquatic habitat. In my small ten gallon viv, I just use wash gravel. But that gets heavy quickly. So something lighter like scoria or leca will be a must for bigger vivs, unless I decide to just use a true false bottom. But then I feel like I loose a lot of biological water quality control. Maybe not, but I don't see much discussion of that.Charcoal...... activated, bbq briquettes or natural? briquettes intended for grills have clay binders that probably make it too gummy for vivs. But I've never messed with it in vivs so I don't know. Activated charcoal is sold for aquarium and other water filters. It has to be replaced regularly. I don't use a filter in my small viv. It only has a gallon of water so I just change it every 10 days or so.Yeah..... I think that's the case. You just can't be positive what's in the stuff you are using considering every retailer is looking for the cheapest source. Also consider that their intended purpose for the product might not be your intended purpose. I mean, how likely is it that your supplier for scoria even thought about hazards to frogs when they bought this product for resale? But if you prefer finding cheaper alternatives like I do, then googling the internet can come up with a lot of information. Of course you have to weed through a lot of opinion... such as everything I just wrote.<<grin>>
    Thankyou again privet01 for your response!

    That's no good about technical issues on the site. I hope something can be done to fix it soon.

    I looked at some Scoria/lava rock today at the garden/hardware store. Its very rough. I'm planning on a burrowing frog for this enclosure so I think something rough like lava rock is not such a good idea, if he burrows past the weedmat he'd get a nasty pointy surprise! [emoji15]

    But I will probably consider it for one or 2 smaller Vivs with scorpions. [emoji3]

    I don't know much about the charcoal, it was mentioned on another forum but I haven't found much further info on it. I'd be reluctant to use charcoal in an aquarium filter unless for a specific purpose, so I'm a little deterred from its use, if its the same charcoal, in a viv.

    From what I can gather it would absorb stuff ("toxins", tannins etc), until saturated, and then just not absorb them. I don't think it really "dumps" it all back in like some say, because then it could just start reabsorbing it again anyway.
    But I worry it might remove good stuff out of the water too, like minerals and such. But I guess that would only be to its saturation point. But then, where is that, how long would that take? I don't know... I'm just not comfortable with it, I guess because I don't know enough about it yet.
    Being black in colour is very appealing though, it would look great! But that's a bonus after functionality and the health and happiness of my frog. [emoji3]

    So clay balls is looking good right now as the safest option, and a false bottom with eggcrate is still an option, although I haven't found a source for that yet.

    Privet01 you helped me realise something... Not to take this too seriously. I have to remind myself of this right now actually. I shouldn't over think things too much, overcomplicate things, or spend too much time umming and ahhing over it. Find a suitable option and go for it. Indecision is a form of procrastinating, and feeds the fear of failure. I've never built/created anything like this before, and its scary. I am proud of myself for taking the first steps so far, instead of continuing to dream about it and never act. I'm amazed I'm actually going to do this!
    And I love the creativity this project inspires, its exciting and awesome, and that should be my main focus (as well as creating an awesome home for a frog). [emoji3]

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    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by Calayvie View Post
    ..........shouldn't over think things too much, overcomplicate things, or spend too much time umming and ahhing over it. Find a suitable option and go for it. Indecision is a form of procrastinating, and feeds the fear of failure
    Exactly...... I bought this Exo Terra 90 x 45 x 45 cm / 36” x 18” x 18” (WxDxH)
    over three years ago and it's just sat in the corner of the house waiting to be set up ever since! I've over thought the setup way too much. I just need to do it and realize I can re-do it if something doesn't work as I want.

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    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    As far as the charcoal goes.... how are you intending to use it? And what type charcoal? I used to use granular activated charcoal in an aquarium filter. It was a re-fillable canister, seems like I replaced it monthly, but that was a very long time ago so I'd have to look up the manufacturer specs.

    I don't think activated charcoal filters out very many dissolved minerals. It is more for dissolved gasses.... I think.

    If you are using it as a substrate, I wouldn't think the mineral loss would even be an issue as your water is just touching it, not flowing through it. If it's just color you are thinking about, they have a black sand in the aquarium dept.

  10. #9

    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by privet01 View Post
    Exactly...... I bought this Exo Terra 90 x 45 x 45 cm / 36” x 18” x 18” (WxDxH)
    over three years ago and it's just sat in the corner of the house waiting to be set up ever since! I've over thought the setup way too much. I just need to do it and realize I can re-do it if something doesn't work as I want.
    Yes, trying to do something perfectly the first time is a pretty big obstacle!
    That's a very nice tank! What are you going to put in it?



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  11. #10

    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by privet01 View Post
    As far as the charcoal goes.... how are you intending to use it? And what type charcoal? I used to use granular activated charcoal in an aquarium filter. It was a re-fillable canister, seems like I replaced it monthly, but that was a very long time ago so I'd have to look up the manufacturer specs.

    I don't think activated charcoal filters out very many dissolved minerals. It is more for dissolved gasses.... I think.

    If you are using it as a substrate, I wouldn't think the mineral loss would even be an issue as your water is just touching it, not flowing through it. If it's just color you are thinking about, they have a black sand in the aquarium dept.
    Using it instead of the lava rock/clay balls. Pure hardwood charcoal is how it was described to me. Maybe its not the activated stuff?

    I've read its very popular to have a layer of charcoal in a terrarium below your substrate, and before the drainage layer, but then some say this isn't necessary either, you don't need to filter/cleanse your water as it moves down. Anyway, I haven't found much about it being used as an actual drainage layer.
    It might be a bit crumbly? I'm not sure. I know its also included in some substrate mixes, I think for drainage, but I'm planning on using orchard bark for that purpose.

    Black would look great in the base of the tank, but I don't like using coloured gravel/stones as I'd worry about dyes leaching. I guess I could find natural black stones though, even natural coloured gravel or stones would look, well...natural! [emoji1]
    But I don't particularly want the weight in the tank. If I had to move the tank for whatever reason, I'd prefer it to be as light as possible.

    If I didn't like the appearance of the drainage/bottom layer, I could use contact to cover it up from the outside.

    Thankyou privet01



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    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by Calayvie View Post
    That's a very nice tank! What are you going to put in it?
    The plan is to put my FBT's that are currently in a 10 gallon tank. Currently only two, but once this is ready I'll probably add at least three more FBT's.

  13. #12

    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by privet01 View Post
    The plan is to put my FBT's that are currently in a 10 gallon tank. Currently only two, but once this is ready I'll probably add at least three more FBT's.
    Fire Bellied Toads? I just looked them up, I've heard of them but not seen what they look like...
    And Wow! They are amazing!!! Absolutely gorgeous! Its hard to believe that they are real!! [emoji1]

    And you have great ground space in that tank [emoji3]



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    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    FBT's are awesome little frogs, great first time frog. There is never a dull moment when you have a nice group of them, and they dont tend to be shy like a lot of other frogs. Feeding time is great, they never under perform. I use to have some and I gave them to my nephew and I can honestly say i miss them. And the other great thing is they don't need to be kept in tropical temps so it's a lot easier to achieve there required temps.

  15. #14

    Default Re: Drainage layer question

    Quote Originally Posted by monster View Post
    FBT's are awesome little frogs, great first time frog. There is never a dull moment when you have a nice group of them, and they dont tend to be shy like a lot of other frogs. Feeding time is great, they never under perform. I use to have some and I gave them to my nephew and I can honestly say i miss them. And the other great thing is they don't need to be kept in tropical temps so it's a lot easier to achieve there required temps.
    Thanks monster they do sound like great frogs...
    Wish I could get them here...

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