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Thread: new to fire bellied toads

  1. #21
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Wow that is stinky .. Ya I am not sure what is wrong with one of my FBTS he started getting fat but would still eat and his color was great he would move around then he had these spasm just for a few hours straight and then he was better but still acts drunk and moves his head side to side looking up in the air.. I got him from someone I have no idea how they had the tank set up for him. but he seems to do fine but thats what I am wondering if he has swallowed something and cant pass it idk.. I have big pebble rocks in there as big as there head and bigger so I know it couldnt come from me . My husband told me maybe hes just old and I just laughed lol

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  3. #22
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Trying to send you pictures but your box is to full lol Jason.. Also my frog is spasin again I dont get it and it wasent until I picked him up to put him in the other tank to clean and back into there home other two are fine

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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Send me a video of its spamming? Your husband could be right in that it's maybe just old, but since the pet shop gave you the wrong supplements it could also be because of that. It might improve after a few weeks of using Calcium Plus, but if it's far gone it may never be 100% again

  5. #24
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Quote Originally Posted by alane View Post
    Do you have any idea what sort of intensity the frogs need? 4W is one of the smaller bulbs.
    Here is another article that might help you......

    http://www.amphibianark.org/pdf/Baines_etal_2016_How_much_UV-B.pdf

    There are quite a few good articles under the "Husbandry Documents" tab here http://www.amphibianark.org

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  7. #25
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Good lord. Very technical articles. People have studied this stuff a lot.

    For me, I guess it means I should replace my LED hood with a Fluorescent hood so that I have access to an array of proper lighting.

    I added more 'land' to my tank, both high and low. The frogs love the low spots only. These frogs want to stay close to the water. They'll go to the higher spots to stalk a cricket.

    Since my tank and filter are new, it's gonna cycle like an aquarium. It's tests for a small amount of ammonia now, so I add to the mix some goo from my outdoor pond filter, which has been stable for years. The frogs left the water IMMEDIATELY when it got muddy and went back in only after it was clear for a while. I hope it isn't a mistake to cycle water with frogs, but that what I got.

    Two of my males are getting real dark. I'm sure that three of the six are males based on calling. The rest, not sure. Most make the 'release' sound, but one does not and just struggles. It's not clear to me if an unreceptive female makes a release sound or not. The internet is full of conflicting information.

    They like to 'squish'. I try to avoid any traps in the aquarium that might pin a frog. But I find that these fellows now and then want to cram themselves in between a pair of rocks. When they swim around, if they are given a choice between open water and squishing through something, they always squish through. So I set a rock close to the glass wall of the aquarium and when they want to cram themselves into a crevice, I can see it. They don't seem to want a shelter as much as fully body contact with rocks. Probably to prevent another frog from getting on their back.

    I've watched one 'periodically spasm' and when I looked closely in the water, I could see that it was shedding.

    Antics. Now I have to figure out the best way to get videos of them; they are very small subjects.

  8. #26
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Hmm I might need to pay more attention that is so strange.. shedding... when he first started doing his weird spasms I was worried about him or her its really fat and over a few weeks got that way but it was a pig for the most part when it came to feeding now he or she will eat two is all . but back to spasms the other day when I cleaned its tank and put them back in the tank he/ she was going around and around in circles for a few seconds then would stop .. now this is new to me I looked over and at that time he was on a rock and was makeing that gaging shedding face but did it twice and then kept twitching and going around in circles. Now if he or she is in the water it does it quite often but if its in a corner behind a plant like its hiding it just sits there and does nothing.. Right now he is in the water close to a rock holding onto a plant and sitting there just fine .. at the mean time one of my other toads keeps barking and sneaking to it real close and hops on it and the one with issues has a problem and makes this bird noise and the other one gets off after a second but comes back to do it some more. This is my first time having Fire bellies and I guess like jason said trial and error and live and as you learn ..Hopefully I can figure it out soon though cause its driving me insane !

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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Well, i'm done with small crickets for sure. These adult FBTs appear to be able to take down the largest of crickets. It'll be a double swallow, one for the body and another to get the legs out of the mouth.

    I've noticed that these frogs have a behavior where they will drown their larger prey. Much of the time if they snap up food this large, they will sink to the bottom of the tank and sit there for a bit. Then they chow down. I didn't see that behavior with a cricket that they could down in one gulp.

    Much easier to deal with smaller amounts of large crickets than feeding them scads of small ones. Just two crickets makes 'em go "catatonic" as in "I cannot eat another cricket, I am stuffed. Well maybe in an hour, come back later." When they stop propping themselves up with their front legs, they are *full*.

    I've also noticed that an old aquarium test kit is NOT to be used. This old aquarium test kit is over 10 years old and the nitrite tests no longer work.
    A new test kit shows the reality, these frogs have a high bio load. The biofilters are working but regular water changes appear to be required at a fairly high frequency if I want super clean water.
    It is time to add a real plant; I have enough nitrates.

    It's awesome to watch one of these suckers eat a large cricket. Glarbarblglahbbhbllglarb! *swallow* Burp!

    And when they are hungry, they are competitive. Last night, the first cricket dropped into the tank instantly caused three frogs to start piling on each other, whereas the other three instantly started stalking their prey. It's a real coin toss who's going to actually win and eat it.

    I've had crickets ejected from the top of the tank because of an enthusiastic jumping frog. Keep that lid closed!

  10. #28
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    The ammonia spike in my newly started frog tank is over! So there is hope that the biofilters will eventually make this water Very Very Clean even with six well fed frogs in just 11 gallons.
    In the nitrite spike now.
    Added a sprig of Elodea as my first live plant.
    I had to remove one of their favorite perches; the petrified wood 'rock' that I used turned out to be alkaline and was making my water rather basic.

    Also, I am still picking out a rock now and then from the tank. This is three weeks after I got them from the store. These rocks all came from the media that the frogs were sitting in at the store. The most recent pebble was rather sharp. SIX rocks or so for six frogs. Most of them came out in the first week, some took longer!

  11. #29
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    I have not seen it discussed much, but it does seem to me that the type of gravel and other materials you use in your viv that come in contact with water will affect it's pH if you aren't paying attention. Typically I'd expect many limestone types to drive it toward alkaline. Some worse than others. Though any rotting substrate or vegetation that is in contact with the water should drive the pH toward acidity.

    Several things to consider on the big crickets.... and this is just opinion and observations I've made during the six years I've been raising my own crickets. So if any one has a degree in entomology and cares to enlighten me......

    As crickets reach full size their exoskeleton get very hard and sharp edged. Maybe this is why they have to hold it submerged to soften it up. But it might in the long run be doing the FBT's harm. Also it seems to me that at this stage of the crickets life they don't eat as much. So they may not be as nutritious as they are not fully gut loaded.

    Of course what you are calling a big cricket might be earlier in their life cycle than what I'm describing.

  12. #30
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    It looks like my tank has cycled as of this morning. Undetectable nitrites. Almost undetectable <0.25ppm ammonia. 20-30ppm nitrates. 7.8pH. Elodea plant growing like stink.

    I'm happy to say that my fbt's have rather good water to swim in.

    All six mosquito fish survived the process.

    I'll have to keep an eye on it, as the bioload of six fire belly toads is pretty big and I feel i'm lucky to have gotten this to work so far. I put rather a lot of biofilter into this tank, using an oversized canister filter, wrapping the intake in filter media and also lining some of the tank with filter media. This appears to provide enough substrate to deal with the pollution. Yet there's only 11 gallons of water. So if something heads south, water quality will suffer very very quickly. And lots of vitamin powder ends up going into this tank, so it seems nutrient rich and primed for some sort of unwanted growth.

    The Elodea from PetSmart came with two other organisms: Sort sort of snail, which I have been killing when I see it. Some sort of nematode, which will cluster around any sort of rotting cricket that I miss. The mosquito fish gorge themselves on these tiny worms.

    I got to see what happens in the rare case that two frogs have grabbed the same cricket:
    First, a frog strikes at a large cricket and gets a hold of it, but half of the cricket is sticking out. Usually at this point, froggy will jump away and swallow the cricket.
    But...another frog gets a good hold of the rest of the cricket before that can happen.
    Then, immediately, all hell breaks loose. Both frogs start flailing, jumping, spinning, turning, trying to wrestle the cricket out of the other's mouth. About ten seconds of violence. The winner has one super-smashed twisted and wrecked cricket it gets to eat. The loser is angry at the winner and abuses the victor for a bit before moving on.

    I guess now I need to start finding local sources of more interesting food items for them.

  13. #31
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    It's nightcrawlers for dinner tonight. Also, I found what looks like an egg mass. Very tiny. (This is a very good camera and lens to blow up such a small thing to such a large picture) I believe that it's from the mosquito fish.

    These could also be snail eggs. The Elodea I bought from the store apparently had snails, i've killed four so far. I do not see any snails in my tank, but if one has somehow hidden and laid eggs, then I suppose these could be snail eggs.



    I very carefully snipped off that leaf and now it's inside of a test tube inside of my aquarium. I guess i'll see what it is if they hatch.

  14. #32
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Those were snail eggs. I found four egg sacs and found the snail, removed it all.

    This happened last night... real frog eggs:



    So I guess they are happy enough in their environment.

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  16. #33
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Quote Originally Posted by alane View Post
    Those were snail eggs. I found four egg sacs and found the snail, removed it all.
    Have you not watched Godzilla and other monster movies? There is always an egg remaining! <<grin>>

    So what are your plans if they produce tad's? Let nature determine what happens or separate them and try to raise them? I ask because I keep having this question with myself. I sometimes want to get more FBT's, but I don't want to deal with unplanned parenthood. Certainly I can't keep an ever increasing population and having to destroy them myself is not something I want to do. If the adult FBT's naturally eliminate the tad's by eating them, then I could live with that.

    p.p.s
    Just saw your explanation in the other topics... so no need to re-hash that unless you or others have something to add.
    Last edited by privet01; March 9th, 2017 at 09:23 AM. Reason: add comment

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  18. #34
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    The center opaque portion of the eggs are no longer spherical. Many are becoming 'crescent' shaped or rather "croissant" shaped. One or two look very odd, I suppose some may not 'work' or its just my viewing angle. But they sure are changing. No movement yet.It's sort of out of my control: Some of these frogs are going to hatch and grow in my main environment with the adults. Some will be isolated and i'll be able to observe and deal with them separately. I expect i'll learn a lot in the coming weeks.

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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    Well, now I feel awful, as i've left the hood of my aquarium open and I discovered way too late that one of my frogs jumped out.

    I'll leave the aquarium hood open when i'm around the house, letting the condensation inside the tank evaporate so I can take better photos. I do it only for a few hours.

    I observed them jump and felt that there was no way they could make such a huge leap.

    I was wrong. The frog count came up short the other day. I know that he must have gotten out a full two days before I discovered it. Then it took me 24 hours to find the dried up body behind some furniture. I tried to rehydrate, but to no avail.

    I feel just terrible, that was my fault entirely. The one that escaped was the male with the weird eyeball.

    On the other hand, I have about 80 tadpoles growing and thriving. So I guess I could consider growing a few to maturity to keep.

    Ugh.

    That was my alpha frog, who would grab anyone, any time and make a racket. My tank is substantially quieter without him.

  20. #36
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    IMO of course. But FBT's don't really need a humid environment. Plus, those of us that have their tank mostly water are going to enjoy a higher humidity at the bottom of the viv anyway. If you have plants that need a high humidity I can understand that.

    So why not just use a screen?

    Let us know if it turns up. some do others don't.

  21. #37
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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    My fbt tank has been going for about two months. The water pump slowed last night and I traced the issue down to the intake filter. I originally wrapped the intake with extra filter material to slow the water flow and make my tank friendlier for very small critters. But over time that filter clogs up.
    The filters inside of the pump itself are all fine.

    I had to re-wrap the intake with new filter material. I left the old one in the tank for now because all of the critters love to eat that goo, and it's good for the water too.

    The tank is getting a lot of snails. I believe I will add an assassin snail.

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    Default Re: new to fire bellied toads

    The forum destroyed my "alane" account, so i've established another.

    They are emerging. Some are emerging in a nursery, some in the main adult tank. The most advanced one has just lost it's tail, but it's not hungry yet. I expect very soon it will be.

    I'll try to post more pics and movies tonight.

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