Clearing up a few discrepancies

[yoshismom]

Hi all!
I'm new to the frog forum here but have been on The Pangea boards and Geckos Unlimited boards for many years. I'm a gecko person mostly but I also keep hedgehogs, rats and hermit crabs. I'm currently breeding both crested and gargoyle geckos as well as keeping a few other species but may be expanding to E. Agricolae very soon as well. I'll be on the look out for a pair at Tinely in a few weeks.
So... Onto the real reason I'm here.
I recently got a very nice bonus at work and am interested in getting a little pacman frog to add to my zoo. I've always loved those cute blorpy faces. So it's time to get one.
So I've been doing lots of research and ran into a few things that I need cleared up if possible.
Firstly, I've read that UVB lighting is not necessary and I've read that it is. Can someone verify?
I've also read that they are voracious eaters, which is ok with me as my leopard gecko pounds bugs. I'd just like to know how often to feed them and how often you dust and with which calcium. With or without D3?
I'm not stranger to humidity as I have lots of geckos I mist down every morning and night. Will this schedule work for a pacman froggle? I know to keep the substrate moist just not sopping.
I've also heard that there should be a water dish and I've heard that it's not necessary. What would you all recommend?
As far as heating, will room temperature be sufficient? I keep all of my geckos (plus the ones that require heating) in the same room at room temperature of about 72-74F. Will this be ok, or should I purchase a heating element? And if so, which would you recommend? Overhead or UTH?
I think that's about it for the questions. If I have anything else, I'm sure I'll ask.
Thanks!!

[jasonm96]

Hey!

Horned frogs eat other frogs and anything they can get fit in their mouths in the wild so they will get D3 when eating whole prey items with organs, unlike other frogs which may only be able to eat small insects (and which may need to bask to produce D3 instead). UVB seems not to be necessary when their diet is varied and supplemented with calcium with D3 but whether or not they will use UVB lighting I'm not sure. It would be good practice always to at least use a bulb that emits UVA and creates a day and night cycle.

Babies will need fed every 1-2 days, sub adults twice a week and adults every 7-10 days. When using insects I'd recommend always supplementing them with calcium with D3.

They're pretty hardy with humidity but best kept moist, so around 60-80%. A water dish should always be provided.

They will not thrive at room temperature at all, they need at least 78F during the day. It's probably best to give reptiles/phibs a thermal gradient anyway, allows them to regulate their body temperature as they wish, right now as we speak my crested gecko is basking. You'll get mixed reviews on what heating to use. I personally use both (not at the same time) and use what ever is convenient to my set up. Whatever you do, don't buy a UHT and stick it on the side, it's useless and if you don't keep your frog warm they will suffer. If they can't raise their body temperature at the right temp to function, they won't eat enough and be able to use the supplements in the best way they can. I'd either use it on the bottom connected to a thermostat and deal with hate or use the overheard lighting by a heat lamp or ceramic, which seems to be most peoples favourites but they kill humidity.

I'd recommend purchasing a good book like AVS chacoan horned frogs.

[yoshismom]

Thanks so much for the response.
I intend to vary the diet as much as I can. So I'll be sure to dust as well as feed at appropriate intervals for it's size/age.
Like I said, I'm no stranger to humidity loving species, so I'll just keep up with my regular misting schedule and include my new little frogger.
I'll keep a water dish in there as well.
I have a few heating elements lying around from previous species, so I'll be sure to test temp and humidity this week while I get the enclosure all set up.
Thanks again!

[jasonm96]

No problem, feel free to ask in DM if you have any more questions or problems.

Good to hear, a varied diet is a must! On top of a varied diet I use calcium plus for dusting, which I highly recommended. It's balanced so can be used every feed so you know you're supplementing the diet right and no risks of under or over supplementing, well unless you don't coat the crickets right. MBD can be a problem with these guys so correct diet, supplementing and temperatures are very important. A fogger will be great when using heat lamps or ceramics but not necessary if using heat mats. I'd aim for around 80F during the day and 75F the night. Something I must warn you about is I've found a lot of conflicting information (and sometimes incorrect) on the internet, so wouldn't use that as your main source for info but instead that book, which I consider the horned frog bible.

[yoshismom]

Awesome.
I have lots of calcium and multi vitamins on hand since I've got hungry cresties, gargs, a leo, a leachie and a pictus. I know MBD is an issue with most reptiles if they don't have proper nutrition.
I have a spare UVB/heat bulb so I'll set it on a thermostat and start testing temps tonight.
He/she will be in a room that gets lots of natural light as well.
Thanks again for all the info.

[jasonm96]

I had no doubt you'd know but I just wanted to emphasise that with horned frogs it can happen more easily since they eat such a varied diet in the wild containing more vertebrates in the wild that insects, unlike geckos and some popular reptiles and so insects are not nutriotionally best for them but just more convenient. Even with the proper nutrition UVB lights imo are a must for even nocturnal/crepuscular species but not so much with horned frogs but I'd watch out for new information. Note that anything less than 5% above mesh (2% bulbs, which are often recommended) do not supply UVB. Wish you and your future frog all the best

Jason

[Lija]

Ha! Well hello hello fellow gecko breeder! I'm on Pangea forums too, not that often as I like though

will reread all the thread so not to go over what was advised already, I just couldn't get past you getting agricolae! My fav geckos by far, now my cresties are slowly being replacing by agricolae, they are awesome! And if can, get them from John ( Pangea guy) and you usually need to order/prepay ahead of time, they fly faster then people put for sale. Sorry for off topic, will go see if I can advise on anything pacman related now lol

[Lija]

You have leachie too? Which one? I have only one, very mean GT.

Okay, should really be on topic here lol

what works for cresties/gargs/argies won't work for pacman frogs.
the main thing as you've been told is humidity - keep within 70-80%range, I mist my cages 2xday, but pacs and pixie tanks are covered with tin foil with cut holes for lamps. I have a fogger too, plugged into hydroterms, but lately I'm not using it, instead I'm using room humidifier, geckos had shed problems because it's so dry here.

Heat - whatever you make work is fine, overhead infrared or ceramic heaters I found work the best, just don't use UTH in a bottom.

light - only needed for day/night cycle, I have mine plugged into the main line, less day hours when it is winter for time for everybody else. UVB is not needed, they are capable to methabolize without UVB present, however they need to be supplemented with ca with d3 ( every other feeding), once a week - multivitamins. I prefer repashy multivitamins and repashy ca+, I'm sure you have something like that laying around, and as you know they need to be replaced every 6 months or so. Be careful with UVB if you happen to get albino - they can't ever have it present.

Variety is good, but frogs don't have digestive system like Leo's. They can't digest hard chitin containing insects, be careful with that. The best staple is nightcrawlers and dubia, with everything else as treats.

there is a nice care sheet here on a forum, you may want to check out.

[jasonm96]

By ca+ are we talking about calcium plus? This has been designed to be used at every insect feeding and has multivitamins in it. It's not the same as standard supplements and is more balanced out, so if you don't use it at every feed you could potentionally under supplement your frogs. I got this information after contacting Repashy superfoods before I started using it

[acpart]

Nice to see a fellow gecko enthusiast here. I know nothing about pacman frogs (isn't that an old computer game?); I have a trio of RETF which is why I'm on this forum. There has been a lot of discussion about providing UV with lights vs. supplements. I've chosen to use a UV light because I worry that the crickets will have groomed all the supplements off themselves by the time the frogs get to eat them. I've actually never seen any of my frogs eat, but the place has frog poop and the crickets are disappearing so I figure it's circumstantial evidence.

Aliza

[Lija]

Yep, lots of discussions regarding geckos and UVB, but pacman frogs are different and red eyes are different too.

[jasonm96]

Feed at night to prevent that. Calcium is still important even when using UVB, though the d3 isn't as your tree frogs and geckos will make it's own under the lights

[yoshismom]

@Lija - HI! I'm definitely going to be searching for a pair of E. Agricolae at Tinley. It's the next gecko I'm going to be adding to my breeding projects. They're just so cute!!
I have a 12gram baby Yate x Morro leachie kiddo that is pretty sweet right now. He's eating like it's going out of style and is great with handling so far. I'm hoping that with continued hand taming he remains calm as an adult.

@acpart - Hey Aliza!! It's good to see you on all three of the forums that I'm on! I didn't know you had red eyed tree frogs! I just know you for all your geckos. You'll have to share photos with me some time!

@jasonm96 - I will order some calcium plus ASAP! It's a Repashy product? Perhaps you could link it for me?

I ended up setting up a tank and tested heating and humidity while I was on lunch break at work yesterday. When I got home the temperature was sitting at 80F and the humidity was at about 80%. Sooooo we went around to see if anyone had any pacmans. We'll I found a big old albino (I believe) female (fairly certain). She's been named Blinky (one of the Pacman ghost's names). I put her in her new home and let her settle in for the night. When I checked and sprayed down all the kids this morning, she had found her little rock cave and made herself at home by taking the BIGGEST poop I've ever seen from a little frog. LOL I'm going to try tong feeding her tonight.

Note: I was going to upload a photo but seem to be having trouble. Every time I try to upload an image, it tells me it's not a valid file type. I've tried just about every file type and it's definitely not too large of a photo too.... I'm at work and maybe something is preventing it from uploading on my end...
Perhaps I'll try again when I'm at home. Or if someone knows what's happening, let me know.

[monster]

Hello, seems every ones got you covered so just wanted to pop in and say congrats on your new little chunky friend. And yes they take huge stinky poops L.O.L, and that's a good sign he/she pooped for you right away. Now you know its not impacted or anything. Again Congrats and hope you enjoy your new friend.

[jasonm96]

Yeah, it's probably the best supplement there is IMO and doesn't smell like others. Here's there product http://www.store.repashy.com/calcium-plus-4-oz-bag.html

Use it every feed as it says on the tub. Could also be good for your geckos but personally I use the LoD (low vitamin D) version for my crested gecko as it's under UVB lights but that definitely won't be a possibility with your albino horned frog.

The site doesn't work that well with images, so you have to upload it on a picture hosting site and then copy the link.

[yoshismom]

Thanks for the link! I'll make an order in the next few days.
I'll try to upload some photos later when I get home from work, since most photo sharing websites are blocked by my work.

[Lija]

just a warning in case you didn't see it before. You can not use UVB for albino frog or any bright light. Their skin and eyes are very sensitive, you are risking blindness and skin damage.

pcs - you need to use photobucket or similar, you can't download pics directly to the forum.
Congrats on a frog and a poop!

[yoshismom]

Thanks @Lija I did see it! I have an albino leopard gecko so I am very aware of the light sensitivity in albinos. I have a dark bulb that produces little to no light and only heat as her heater. It's maintaining a steady 80F and 80% humidity in there.
She did eat an earthworm for me lastnight. I also tried a giant mealworm but she didn't seem to be interested in it. Perhaps it's too small? She's about the size of my palm.