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Thread: Question about humidity and temps

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    Default Question about humidity and temps

    Hello,

    I have some mixed feelings about the temps and humidity I am getting and I hope somebody can give me some advice.
    I am trying something and I am not sure which is better. It's a little experiment, but I am doubting what to do with the result.


    The situation:

    My exo terra is 30x30x30 CM, not a permanent enclosure but temporary, Kermit will be getting a larger tank when the Time is there, for Christmas perhaps.
    When Kermit has grown out of it.

    Heating
    I heat by UTH, a little heat mat of 7 watt, which doesn't get very warm, and is placed on the left side under the tank. To create the possibility of thermoregulation.

    The side won't work for me, too much heat loss, and with a backdrop... more heat loss. Ergo the choice for underneath.

    I also have an exo terra daylight basking spot, which is coated on the sides and sits in the light hood. I chose this bulb because heat is reflected and not beamed directly to one spot to prevent the frog from being dried out


    The temps and humidity:
    When I only used the heat mat, the temps were about 21 degrees Celsius on the warm side. Which was a bit too chilly so I added the lamp.
    Together they create a temp about mostly 24, sometimes 25 degrees Celsius and steady, when I use my central heating it goes up a notch and it keeps at 25/26 degrees Celsius.

    I mist once maybe twice a day to keep the humidity between 70 and 80% sometimes it falls back a bit sometimes it goes higher.



    My experiment:


    I have a little Plexiglas plate, that I can place on the mesh screen top in the front. (see picture added).
    It leaves a strip of mesh free of about 1 cm for ventilation
    When I use this, the temperature rises and keeps around 25/26 degrees and the humidity rises as well.

    When the heat lamp goes out, the temperature keeps a bit higer up, during the night. About 23 degrees Celcius.
    But my concern was the humidity, it rises to almost 90% or higher during the night, and together with the plate blocking large air movements, I am afraid of stagnant air and mold in the tank.

    Is that situation harmful to my frog?
    Should I leave the plate on or off, or take it off only at night...?


    I like the Exo Terra's they are my favorite tank and in the Summer months they really have excellent ventilation, but in the colder seasons I have a lot of heat and humidity loss.

    I don't really know what is better.
    I am trying to create a good environment for Kermit, and I am a little bit afraid of doing it wrong, I really want to provide the best I can.
    Can you smell the perfectionist haha


    Thank you for any advice.

    Joey








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    100+ Post Member monster's Avatar
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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Cut the plexi glass abit more so it gives you a bigger opening and don't mist a few hours before lights go off and it should help. Also if you cant cut the plexi glass again foil will help a a lot, and its easier to replace and cut if you need a bigger or smaller opening. I just got to run out for abit and I will post pictures for ya.

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    I can tell you straight away that you're not getting an accurate temperature reading from that gauge. heat mats don't heat the air significantly and heat the substrate and animal instead. put a digital thermometer with the probe under the substrate on the heat mat and you'll see that a heat mat full blast will reach a very hot temperature, so make sure it's on a stat.

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Quote Originally Posted by monster View Post
    Cut the plexi glass abit more so it gives you a bigger opening and don't mist a few hours before lights go off and it should help. Also if you cant cut the plexi glass again foil will help a a lot, and its easier to replace and cut if you need a bigger or smaller opening. I just got to run out for abit and I will post pictures for ya.
    Thanks I'll try that


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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonm96 View Post
    I can tell you straight away that you're not getting an accurate temperature reading from that gauge. heat mats don't heat the air significantly and heat the substrate and animal instead. put a digital thermometer with the probe under the substrate on the heat mat and you'll see that a heat mat full blast will reach a very hot temperature, so make sure it's on a stat.
    I'll look into that. Thanks.


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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    I think you'll find that will be the problem, I was in the same situation If you're using a heat lamp as well i'd take it out and put an exo terra natural light or 2.0, it doesn't produce enough UVB to be of any use but will provide a day and night cycle and make it easier to view the frog a heat source on the bottom and one on the top isn't good, means the frog can't escape the heat

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonm96 View Post
    I think you'll find that will be the problem, I was in the same situation If you're using a heat lamp as well i'd take it out and put an exo terra natural light or 2.0, it doesn't produce enough UVB to be of any use but will provide a day and night cycle and make it easier to view the frog a heat source on the bottom and one on the top isn't good, means the frog can't escape the heat
    I actually felt the heat mat myself, as well as the glass and I tested it with full substrate in it and felt the bottom of the substrate and honestly... It doesn't become very warm at all, its 7 watts....

    My frog doesn't need any UVB, although a little can be beneficial. But I chose not to use one because of the small distance between the light and the ground. UVB rays can be harmful if there is not enough distance between the source and the ground. Learned that when I was studying about my Russian tortoise.

    The heat mat is very small and only covers about a third of the tank, the right side has no mat under it. There are also 2 hides one on the warm side and one on the cool side. So my frog can choose where to sit.

    The heat mat alone doesn't produce enough warmth by itself so I'll have to keep using the lamp.

    I can remove the heat mat but I am afraid it will get too cold at night here so I think I'll try to cut the plexiglass first.

    I don't want it to get to cold for my frog.

    I added a picture of the lamp so you can see.
    It's a really safe lamp to use imo for an amphibian.





    I don't know if you can tell but I put the plexiglass back on it this afternoon and its now 26 degrees Celsius. That's 2 degrees up. It normally is 24 degrees. On one site they say 24 degrees is fine on the other site they say it should be 25 to 28 degrees. Hence my confusion..... There are many sites and many opinions.....






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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Our body temperature is a lot warmer than the mat will be you can't tell by touching it. Heat mats all get up to around the same temperature, no matter how low or high the wattage is, higher wattage heat mats just tell you that it's bigger and therefore need more electricity to power it. However, some small heat mats with higher wattage than the normal ones are designed to get hotter. Trust me, if you put a digital thermometer on that mat you'll be shocked and if not then there's something wrong with the mat itself. I wasn't suggesting that it did, it's just in case you'd think that you wouldn't need d3 in your supplements but you would as they lamps aren't UVB ones. I'm also sure those canopies weren't designed for that heat lamp but the flat long ones and no higher than 25watts. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, I've been in your situation and had many trial and errors

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    Default Question about humidity and temps

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonm96 View Post
    Our body temperature is a lot warmer than the mat will be you can't tell by touching it. Heat mats all get up to around the same temperature, no matter how low or high the wattage is, higher wattage heat mats just tell you that it's bigger and therefore need more electricity to power it. However, some small heat mats with higher wattage than the normal ones are designed to get hotter. Trust me, if you put a digital thermometer on that mat you'll be shocked and if not then there's something wrong with the mat itself. I wasn't suggesting that it did, it's just in case you'd think that you wouldn't need d3 in your supplements but you would. I'm also sure those canopies weren't designed for that heat lamp but the flat long ones and no higher than 25watts. Trust me, I know what I'm talking about, I've been in your situation and had many trial and errors
    Thanks,

    I am looking for a temp gun. I heard they were the most accurate you can use.
    The lamp is 25 watts, by the way. I made sure of that.

    I give reptivite multi vitamin, it has everything.
    I use it for everybody here.


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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    If it's a spot lamp the beam might melt the canopy, the ones designed for the canopy aren't spot lamps and don't direct the heat. They won't be useful in this situation as you want to measure the temperature below the substrate level, on the glass where the heat mat is attached to

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Quote Originally Posted by jasonm96 View Post
    If it's a spot lamp the beam might melt the canopy, the ones designed for the canopy aren't spot lamps and don't direct the heat. They won't be useful in this situation as you want to measure the temperature below the substrate level, on the glass where the heat mat is attached to
    Thank you for saying that. I have been using it for almost 5 days now. I checked it to be sure. It's 25 watt for sure and I felt the plastic, it's warm but not hot. No melting luckily. I jumped at the thought though. I'll try and find another one that's not a spotlight. But I'll have to order it online they were out of them at the store when I went and bought this one.


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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    We have quite a few exo terra hoods. They'll handle a 60w incandescent before you really have to worry about heat.

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    No problem, I don't wanna hear about a fire! The ones the canopies were designed for are these http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products..._heat_lamp.php

    But honestly, if you're putting the heat mat on the bottom it should be just fine. I've used many 7w heat mats and I live in a cold climate. There's 3 things you need in your life, a an ET natural light probably 13 watts for your tank, a digital thermometer and a thermostat. Or you could go down the route of heating from just above but you'll need a light dome as you'll probably need at least a 50w

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Krispy, it even says 25W on the box and it's a plastic hood, not really ideal for a heat bulb that will get extremely hot. Light domes should be used for heat lamps.

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Im not going to get into heat matt debates because I tend to bend the rules abit when it comes to size and coverage, but the one thing I can agree on is you should pick one source of heating and have it comeing from one direction. I would have to agree you don't want heat comeing from underneath him and from above. Could be a little to much for him. IMO you shouldn't have heat comeing from underneath at all, they burrow to cool down not to get warm. And even if the the matt is on one side underneath it will somewhat warm up all the substrate.

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    It can be used on the bottom, that was the method for the person who first bred horned frog. I don't even think they burrow to stay cool or warm but somewhere in between when whether isn't ideal above. But whatever way used it should provided a thermal gradient and should be controlled by a thermostat. Personally I don't like heat mats when high temperatures are needed, they're more of a background heat source or night time IMO as they don't do much to air temperature. Heat mat on the side is great if only little heat is required though.

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Well... I went to my friend and he cut the plexiglass to make room for more ventilation. I ordered the sunglo 25 watts just to be sure. I'll test it out next week when it gets there. I'll keep you guys posted.


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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    So here is an update on the situation.
    The temps and humidity are fine.

    I got my order in though, of the lamp I ordered extra just to see if it makes a difference in temperature.

    I also spread some dried Oak leaves in the terrarium to help with humidity and make it look more Natural.

    Here are some pictures of it.


    The lamp I ordered, I've put in the hood so I'm monitoring it to see if it makes any real difference.




    The terrarium, Kermit is dug in in front of the flower pot but you can't barely see him. But I'd figure I'd leave Kermit be. Yesterday I fed some mealworms, and I got a good feeding response.





    Take care,

    Joey


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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Hey man looks good, and glad to hear things are starting to work out for you. Don't feed meal worms to often, they don't digest the exo skeleton and if theres to much it can impact him.

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    Default Re: Question about humidity and temps

    Quote Originally Posted by monster View Post
    Hey man looks good, and glad to hear things are starting to work out for you. Don't feed meal worms to often, they don't digest the exo skeleton and if theres to much it can impact him.
    Hi,

    Thank you again for your advice.
    Really? I didn't know that. I'd figure they eat all sorts of insects in the wild.
    I feed them to my leopard gecko, and invertebrates. Never really had a problem with them really.
    Don't crickets and morioworms, and other feeders have exo skeletons too? Or are it just the mealies I should be modest with?

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