We should call the study people with your faster growing snake conclusion and my straight boned frog conclusion . Maybe they need a hint. Lol
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What? The "study" people? Snakes grow quickly based on their diet and nutrition. And...as I said before, reptiles and nocturnal amphibs are like comparing apples and oranges. Different species with very different behaviors. You might as well compare a frog to a bird. My frogs...all 9 of them, have perfectly straight bones, no signs of MBD at all and some of them have been with me, and UV-less, since they were juveniles. Similar results were found in the studies that were done, hence leading to the whole "inconclusive" part. Clearly, your experience in the hobby is not that extensive, so I would ask that you, please, actually take the time and do research and fact check before offering advice and "facts" to others.
Also, just to add so people understand clearly, if you have a frog with albinism, which is fairly popular, UV WILL harm your animal and cannot be used.
2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"
0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"
Oops that was a different person I was talking too. I'm not attacking you I promise.
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I fact check with my vet not random people on line but if something I learned my vet can help others that's good. Where are your facts coming other random people on line
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The last paragraph of your message is what I'm trying to understand Do people believe it to be harmful or just unnecessary. I truly am open minded to new info. But it takes alot to override information from my vet.
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Apparently you're not getting the whole part where we've read studies to determine whether it is necessary or not. As stated before, many vets are not up to date on current practices...the amount of research that has been done to update our husbandry in the last 5 years alone is overwhelming. I'm not saying not to trust your vet, but there are many more sources out there than just one person. Instead of arguing your point as strictly fact, as you have been, you could do a little bit of your own research. Reading studies done by researchers who have dedicated their life to learning about amphibians is not the same as talking to "other random people on the internet." The exotic vet that I used to go to, knew less about frog care than I did. Probably because most frog owners treat their frogs like a disposable pet and provide vets with little opportunity to learn. I went to him simply to get prescriptions needed. That is not uncommon.
2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"
0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"
It IS harmful to albino frogs. UV lighting absolutely cannot be used with them, it can cause blindness and skin issues. I do not have any albino frogs, but I do see UV lighting as unnecessary so long as there is proper supplementation. It will not harm a regular frog (although I have read that some bulbs can be too strong.) Other people use the uv lights "just in case" there is a benefit.
2.0.3 Hyla versicolor "Eastern Gray Tree Frogs"
2.2.0 Agalychnis callidryas "Red Eyed Tree Frogs"
0.0.3 Dendrobates auratus "Turquoise and Bronze"
0.0.1 Anaxyrus fowleri "Fowler's Toad"
I'm just trying to understand the otherside . I've never had the conversation with him about not having them he said it was a good setup and after the shock of the rocks in the xray he said there's no signs of MBD and that she looked great other than the rocks. So you can imagine I felt like ok that's good I'm doing the right thing
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Thank you Lily pad that's what I was looking for . I fall into the just in case it helps. I supplement too . I like to understand other people's decision making with their animals so I can learn new ways or learn that my ways are best for my animals. Never meant to be a jerk about any of this. I wish you and your animals the very best. And keep on teaching once you take off the edge your good at it
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I do use UV lights with my bearded dragons, which are large diurnal reptiles. I don't use UVB for my nocturnal geckos (or my nocturnal frogs) because the geckos, at least, are in their hides all day and would't benefit from the lights. Also, since all the geckos are doing well, not using UBV keeps me from having to replace many UBV lights every 6 months (I have about 30 cages in total). I would never do something harmful to my geckos (and frogs) just because I'm trying to save money, but my experiences with the day geckos over the course of a number of years convinces me that this system is working. While I would agree that it's hard to compare amphibians and diurnal reptiles, it doesn't seem to me to be that off base to compare nocturnal amphibians and nocturnal reptiles.
Aliza
I've been trying to understand other people's decision about the lights. Like do they believe it harmful or just unnecessary really to learn more about the topic. I never meant to get in the debate or offend or give wrong info. We all love our animals alot. No doubt. I'd die if I had to manage 30 tanks. GO YOU!
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Luckily for me I don't need that much sleep! I don't think we're offending so far but having an interesting discussion. As long as it stays that way, I'm enjoying it.
Aliza
I'm so happy Mrs. Bigheads recovering I think it's hitting me now how grateful I am that she made it. Usually things don't have this ending. They're so fragile and resilient at the same time . This time our best efforts were enough.
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Wow this post got busy while I was away, thank you for answering my questions though, I will probably veto the uvb in favor of more ventilation on top and stick to the two frogs
It's amazing how different the thinking about UVB seems to be on each side of the Atlantic. Over here denying almost ANY captive animal UVB is considered outdated and in some cases almost if not entirely abusive! There are very few serious keepers or breeders who don't use it here these days. When I first started out there was no such thing available to freely purchase, we're very lucky that that's not the case any more.
There's a huge amount of anecdotal evidence among keepers as well as a number of studies that demonstrate the benefits of UVB. We should be trying as closely as possible to recreate the natural environment for our charges and skimping on something as fundamentally important as sunlight for the sake of the cost of a bulb really is unnecessary and quite against the grain of modern husbandry techniques.
With the exception of animals that genetically would be harmed by UVB (albinos for example), PLEASE provide it along with adequate cover and shelter for the animal to self-regulate. I can absolutely vouch for my own observations in the difference that it makes to the well-being of captive tree frogs.
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Trachycephalus resinifictrix - Trachycephalus nigromaculatus - Agalychnis callidryas - Agalychnis spurelli - Phyllomedusa sauvagii - Phyllomedusa bicolor - Phyllomedusa vaillanti - Phyllomedusa tomopterna - Gastrotheca riobambae - Anotheca spinosa - Cruziohyla craspedopus - Cruziohyla calcarifer - Hyla arborea - Litoria caerulea.
I use uvb I will continue to use uvb I have tree frogs good luck to all the frogs who's owners only have inconclusive studies for their info. I found alot of studies that say yes to uvb even one Dr. accidently learned this with frogs he was using in a lab that had no sunlight or uvb and was surprised to see severe mbd. I don't know what people are thinking I'm not changing . Good luck to all
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Thank you for info it's a crazy topic with no supporting data but people on here ferociously fight against uvb beyond stupid and an inconclusive study is called a waste of time. And that's all they have these bs studies I have an xray of my frogs bones and they're good . Call me crazy but I listen to my vet who's a doctor maybe they save the studies with conclusions for the people paying for their educations . I would think the inconclusive studies are a dime a dozen online to a bunch of people at home on their couch. I utilize my vet. Regardless of the money.
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Last edited by Lija; August 31st, 2015 at 11:20 AM. Reason: You have been given a warning. Please express your opinions in a societally appropriate manner. Thanks. Lija
I hope everybody can see our conversation I was attacked right away on here for using uvb and never even figured out how to navigate this forum.
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Sorry everybody, have been away, life was a bit crazy.
now regarding UVB. while it might be beneficial for red eye tree frogs to have in on, it is not needed. Like most tree frogs they are are adapted to live in low to no sun light conditions in a wild and do not need additional source of UVB for their metabolism, however they will be just fine if you have it on.
Beaded dragons, some tree frogs are different and do need UVB, and high spectrum at that. Different species have different requirements. OP asked about red eyes, and I believe he got his questions answered.
There is no need to argue, but if you do want to prove your point you are welcome to do so in respectful manner in a separate thread. You are welcome to share your scientific data, nobody knows everything ( even vets and personally I would love to hear new data I might not be aware yet.
Save one animal and it doesn't change the world, but it surely changes the world for that one animal!
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