Gray isn't eating and his underside looks pinkish

[Dace]

Well, it's gone on too long now that my adult male gray tree frog is barely eating. If he is eating, he's not doing it while I'm watching and most of the moths I throw in there are still there in the morning. I just saw him leaning against the glass and his feet, lower abdomen and thighs, and neck below the dark patch were disturbingly pink tinged... The photos don't do it justice, it looks worse in real life. Other than his food refusal he's acting more or less normal, maybe he's a bit less active than normal but he's certainly sleeping on branches during the day, climbing around at night, and he isn't sitting on the floor or anything. I found a very small poop the other day, probably because he hadn't eaten anything but a single small moth. (I have been providing several moths of all sizes each night.) I'm really worried about him...

[Dace]

http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...hvaqn.jpg.html
http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...8pchn.jpg.html

[irThumper]

It's hard to tell from the pics but I don't see any blood vessels or sores. Could be he's pink from jumping on the glass or other objects. He looks fat enough, unless he's bloated?

Are you only feeding moths? There isn't a lot of nutrition or bulk in a moth by itself, and frogs in the wild eat a wide variety of insects. To start I'd get him some crickets and make sure they are gut loaded on a highly nutritious diet AND dusted with a good calcium-vitamin supplement like Repashy's All-In-One.

[Dace]

Moths are all that he'll eat (or at least all that he ate the last time he was eating). If he was hungrier I would be feeding him mostly dubias.
he does look fat in this picture, but he doesn't look so good from above- his hips are protruding and his sides are kind of "saggy".

[Dace]

Here's a picture I just took. He looks terrible... His back is practically a pyramid.
​http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...h9flq.jpg.html

[irThumper]

Ah, poor guy. How long have you had him? Most of my frogs will take dubias, some pretty tentatively, and one won't eat them at all. Have you tried waxworms or butter worms?

[LilyPad]

I could not get my greys to eat dubias. Try getting him some appropriately sized crickets. As irThumper said, moths are fairly nutritionally deficient. There is also a possibility of parasites. He doesn't look ridiculously thin, but definitely needs a much healthier diet. Make sure you're using vitamin and calcium supplements.

[Dace]

Well, right now my priority is getting him to eat anything at all... He's barely eaten anything for over two weeks I think...
My other two grays love dubias, and he did too until he stopped eating.

I've had him for at least 6 years I think, I'll have to check the dates on some old pictures to be sure.

[LilyPad]

Was he an adult already when you got him? It could possibly be old age. Do the others live with him? They could have introduced a parasite that he didn't previously have.

I had an elderly grey tree frog pass away recently (I did help him along at the very end though.) He started getting very thin, and being unsure of his age, I had a fecal test done right away to make sure that was all clear. He had fecal testing done in the past, just wanted to make sure nothing new had been introduced. He slowly got thinner because he couldn't catch his food very well. I started hand feeding him and he had no problems until he slowly stopped taking food. When we got down to the point of one cricket a week and he was getting very thin and struggling to get in and out of the water dish, I decided it was time to help him go.

Just editing to add... My elderly grey ended up looking much more sickly than your guy. I don't think your guy is ready to go yet, but old age could be starting to get to him if he was already an adult when you got him.

[Dace]

He was a juvenile about an inch long when I found him, so I don't think he's dying of old age. He can't be older than 7 and is most likely only 6.
he was kept with one of my other frogs for about a month this spring when my youngest frog (the one who wasn't eating and pacing back and forth at the front the terrarium, who is now my most voracious eater and has grown significantly) wasn't eating and couldn't have the competition from the other frog. But I already had that one for about a year and he's definitely never shown any signs of illness, unless it's just something his young, vigorous immune system can handle that my older frog can't.

[irThumper]

Average life expectancy is 7-9 years according to this http://people.wcsu.edu/pinout/herpet...or/nathist.htm

[Dace]

Ok it turns out he might actually be only 5... The oldest picture I could find of him was from December 2011, but I can't remember if I found him in May of that year (which would make him 6) or in September (which would make him only 5.)

[Dace]

So, for now should I just watch and wait? He's definitely strong enough that he could eat if he wanted.

[LilyPad]

Copy/paste and fill this out. It'll give us a bigger picture of what is going on. I wouldn't just leave it, grey tree frogs typically do not turn down food unless something is going on.

QUESTIONS

1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species)
2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" )
5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? )
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined
8----what is the typical humidity level
9----what temperature is maintained
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically)
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc)
13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting
-----for the frog's soaking dish
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials
16---when is the last time the frog ate
17---have you found poop lately
18---how often is the frog fed
19---what size feeder is given
20---what other feeders are used as treats
21---what is the frog's main food source
22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed
23---vitamins - what brand and how often
24---calcium - what brand and how often
25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time
26---approximate age of the frog
27---how long have you owned the frog
28---who cared for the frog before you
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no)
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:
-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet

[Dace]

QUESTIONS


1----what 'kind' of frog is it ( what species) Hyla versicolor

2----please include a photo of the frog
3----Please include a photo of the frog's current enclosure
4----size of enclosure ( W" x D" x H" ) 10 inches wide 12 inches tall 20 inches long

5----# on inhabitants - ( if there is another frog --- is there a size difference ? ) no
6----has or was the frog kept with a different species or with any other tank mate-for a month this spring he was kept with a smaller gray
7----is there a new tank mate----was the new tank mate quarantined- no

8----what is the typical humidity level- i don't know. I mist every day and half the lid is covered with plastic wrap.
9----what temperature is maintained- 60-83 F I would say are the extremes. It's been in the 70's for as long as the problem has occurred.
10---what is, specifically, being used to maintain the temperature of the enclosure- sometimes I use a warm lightbulb in the winter.
11---describe the enclosure lighting ( very specifically) a desk lamp with a fluorescent lightbulb. Doesn't emit much heat but he still basks in it.
12---describe enclosure maintenance ( water changes, cleaning etc) Water bowl changed every morning; I spot clean for feces every day. Substrate changed as needed, usually only once a year.

13---what kind of water is used
-----for misting- bottled spring water (tap water is nasty)
-----for the frog's soaking dish- same as above
-----is de-chlorinator used / what brand- none
14---material(s) used for substrate - be very specific- 1.5 inches of gravel (too big to be swallowed) beneath 2- 2.5 inches of coconut fiber.
15---enclosure set up:
-----if recent - describe how the enclosure was cleaned- no
-----plants( live or artificial) if artificial plants are used are they plastic or fabric- a bunch of live English ivy
-----describe wood, bark , and background materials- dead birch and maple branches
16---when is the last time the frog ate- I have no idea. He has been showing little or no interest in food for about 2 weeks.
17---have you found poop lately- 2 days ago I found a very small piece (I think)
18---how often is the frog fed- before he got 1- 4 dubia roaches every day, with an occasional day or two off. (just before he stopped eating altogether he would only accept moths)

19---what size feeder is given- mostly half- inch dubia roaches
20---what other feeders are used as treats- moths, earthworms, crane flies, woodlice, occasional mealworms in winter, etc...
21---what is the frog's main food source- dubia roach nymphs

22---do feeders roam free in the enclosure or is the frog bowl fed- as of recently, moths allowed to roam free. Before he was mainly hand- fed.
23---vitamins - what brand and how often- plenty of wild earthworms, woodlice and other wild insects, roaches gut loaded with vitamin rich vegetables etc...
24---calcium - what brand and how often- woodlice (incredibly calcium rich, the name "pill bug" comes from when they were used as primitive antacid tablets) and dubia roaches gut loaded with dark leafy greens and other calcium rich foods; an assortment of wild insects that have no doubt been munching on all kinds of calcium rich plants and leaves.

25---was the frog without calcium for any period of time- he probably doesn't get as much calcium in the winter as he does in the summer.
26---approximate age of the frog- between 5- 6 years, I'm leaning towards 6 years.
27---how long have you owned the frog- 5 years I think
28---who cared for the frog before you- nature did
29---is the frog wild caught or captive bred- wild caught
30---how often the frog is handled -- are gloves used ( what kind of gloves)- he is never handled just for the sake of being handled, but occasionally he jumps out of his tank or onto my hand and must be replaced. Also for cleaning the tank and any number of other reasons. Gloves are not used, but I always make sure my hands are quite clean and free of sweat, grease and chemicals before I work with my frogs.
31---is the enclosure kept in a high or low traffic area- fairly low traffic
30---has or was the frog properly quarantined (yes or no) I had no other amphibians when I first kept him
-----for how long
32---has the frog been treated with any medication:- no.

-----for what
-----name of medication
-----for how long
-----what dose
-----was medication prescribed by a herp vet




pictures of frog and enclosure in a minute

[LilyPad]

If you recently had another wild caught frog in with him, I would bet on parasites. Also, even tap water should be treated with something like seachem prime. I would make sure you get a calcium supplement for him too. A variety of gutloaded feeders helps, but when in captivity, a supplement would be best. He doesn't look calcium deficient to me, but better safe than sorry.

[Dace]

These pics were just taken.
http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...nn9zn.jpg.html
http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...tml?sort=3&o=0

i should add that last night I added 3 moths to his enclosure, and although I looked at him with a red plastic covered flashlight late at night and saw them parade right past him several times and be completely ignored, there is no trace of their existence today and it almost seems like he might have something in his stomach...

[Dace]

And I just found this!
http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...6uo3x.jpg.html

[Dace]

I should also mention that he seems much less sickly today... Before when I tried to hand feed him, he ignored me completely and sometimes didn't even open his eyes... A minute ago I tried poking his nose with a roach and he immediately woke up, swatted it away with his hands quite aggressively, and then jumped across the tank. Also his colors seem much better and he's even got a hint of green on his sides.

[Dace]

I just read your threads about garlic as an appetite enhancer... Do you think it's worth a shot? I knew garlic has an effect on fish but I didn't know it worked on reptiles and amphibians too... Although I would think that frogs, being visual hunters, would really need to taste the garlic for it to work so that doesn't really help me...