My gray tree frog doesn't trust me anymore!

[Dace]

Today. These past few days he's been spending an awful lot of time sitting on the substrate, dark brown in color.

http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...tml?sort=3&o=0

i haven't the slightest whether he's eating or not.

[Dace]

Double post.

[Dace]

And finally, just a minute ago I noticed this object next to him on a branch. Legitimate frog poo, or just the result of some swallowed substrate?
http://s356.photobucket.com/user/Dac...b3m2j.jpg.html

[Dace]

There's been a large cricket with the run of the viv overnight which he showed no interest in. Then, this morning, he pounces on and eats it right when I walk into the room! So he is eating!

[victorsgrace]

Good you saw him eat something!

I'm no expert on frogs, since I only keep toads, but one of my Bufos used to do the pacing and they do it everytime their tank substrate is changed (every three-four weeks). To me it indicates stress.

I gave my guys a larger enclosure, since they'd grown, and plantes two large ferns, got two low ceramic caves, soft rocks, succulent plants and generally do alot to maintain an enclosure that's as natural as possible, with numerous amounts of choices for hiding/burrowing.

I'd check how he's interacting with the other two frogs, especially if they are bigger than him: Are they food agressive? Is he stressed out by them? If they are bigger than him, that in itself can be intimidating, since most frogs and toads eat offspring of their own species. And if they are food agressive - and there's two of them, he might be too stressed to go to the bowl, if they're there first.

Otherwise I'd leave him alone for now, to give him a chance to cool down. Check if your terrarium is placed in a highly trafficed area where he might feel too exposed.

I don't suspect a troll b'cause the crickets are dissappearing, but he's loosing weight. Before I was introduced to the feeder bowl method for crickets, I thought my two Bufos ate ALOT of crickets. Until I found a literal night club under their water bowl 8.l and in their plant.

[Dace]

The other frog that normally shares his enclosure has been moved in with my third frog, who (formerly) had his own enclosure. I think its stress as well, but I don't know what might be stressing him. One thing that happened recently was that I noticed the plants were dying. I removed the sheet of moss covering the surface and discovered that the substrate was bone dry. I removed the plants and moss, stirred up the substrate, soaked with a spray bottle till it was moist again, and added new plants. But he started pacing and refusing food well after this happened and the other frog didn't seem affected. I might try moving the enclosure- and if that doesn't work I'll move the other frogs to his enclosure and place him in theirs. Yesterday he ate two millipedes (relax not the cyanide kind), and today he devoured a mayfly. But he still ignores roaches.

[Dace]

YES! VICTORY! He just ate a small moth from my fingers.

[victorsgrace]

Okay. How do you care for them? Do you follow a careguide?

Look, I think you should just let him calm down. If you move his enclosure, give him rest. Don't try to hand feed him - just leave some food in a bowl. If his enclosure is in good order, pr. a good careguide for your frog species, just leave some food in a bowl around his normal feeding hours and leave him be for a week or so.

If he is this stressed, moving him around, staring at him while he's feeding, picking him up, rummaging around the tank, moving him to a new tank - you'll stress him outta his mind. One thing I know from toads: A stressed out animal can leave to weakened immune system, which can lead to diseases that're hard to heal and handle - without stressing him further.

So.. I'd recommend just checking his surroundings pr. a good careguide, move the tank if you have to and then absolutely ignore him, except for feeding. Moving him into a totally new tank where he doesn't recognize anything and his preferred area is gone does not sound like a good idea right now.

[Dace]

I have been trying my best not to stress him... Although it's tough not to stare at him when he's pacing. I've decided not to move him or his cage. Frankly I don't think hand feeding is a source of stress- I just wait till he's sleeping on a branch and put the food item an inch in front of him and see if he responds. I don't pick my frogs up and shove food in their face when they don't want it or anything like that...
oh, oh, and how do I care for them... Lessee... Standard 10 gallon tank. Not tall but I make good use of space, I have branches wedged all the way at the top, where the frogs usually sleep. I have a couple inches of cocofiber substrate with a stone drainage layer beneath. There's plenty of live plants (or there will be soon in The little guy's tank, I just redid a few months ago and they haven't filled the substrate with roots quite yet) and springtails so I don't change the substrate often. There's never a foul smell and my oldest frog has lived under my care for 6 years. I generally mist every day, but I let the vivs dry out once in a while for sanitary reasons. No water bowl. Bear in mind that they live high in trees, sure the occasional lucky gray has a water filled tree hole but generally they live high and dry. I have seen grays resting out in the open in full sun on hot, dry sunny days several feet above the ground, no water or even moisture in sight. I used to feed my frogs every other day, but they seemed skinnier and their hips protruded more than those I see in pictures, so now I feed me daily and they're looking fatter and happier.

[Dace]

Heheheh...He just ate a roach out of my hand...

[Crispy42]

You don't have a water bowl in your tank? I would strongly advise adding one. In the wild there are obviously no bowls exactly, but they have other options for getting water (dew and rainwater collects in leaves and crevices in branches even high up in the trees, or they can come down to the ponds or puddles). Especially if you are letting your tank "dry out" sometimes, they need a source of water available while the humidity is low (although you should also try to keep humidity relatively stable if possible).

in captivity our frogs depend on us for everything, so it is important to provide them with conditions as close to ideal as we can. In the wild, frogs can move to another location if they don't have the right humidity/temp/water, but in a 10 gallon tank they can't just find somewhere else with different resources.

[Dace]

Ok they have water bowls now... But I still don't believe it's necessary.

[Dace]

I did listen to their suggestion. They have water bowls now...

[victorsgrace]

It is necessary. They drink through their skin. What you saw in the wild, was an animal sitting there, at that moment, with opportunity to move to another place if needing water or shade.

Also you shouldn't dry out your tank... Amphibians need moisture and it serves no hygienal purpose, but can invite mites and what not to the feces. Please follow the careguide apropriate for your animal.

[Bruce]

Hey! Just read up on this, you've been given awesome advice

Here's a pic of my setup for my girl, if it'll help you with some design ideas...



I have a small water dish in there, which she likes to soak in regularly, and i mist at least once a day. It's a simple set up, a bendy branch and a mature pothos plant, eco earth betting with springtails added to help maintain waste and tend to the pothos' roots. Room temps are fine, my room sits around 70-75.

These are very easy treefrogs to care for you can handfeed occasionally, but they are right about stress, I don't touch her unless I need to for that reason. Stress can be a serious issue with delicate frogs.

My opinion, if she is eating and soaking and the temps are right, just give her time to adjust and relax, she'll be fine.

I might have missed this, but are you supplimenting? If so what are you using and how often?

[Dace]

I don't fully agree with the necessity for water bowls for this particular species, but they have water bowls now and I'm not going to argue. But I can assure you that my frogs were not dehydrated before...
I dust their roaches with calcium and vitamin powder in the winter every few weeks, in the summer they get a wide variety of wild caught insects.
And I think the little guy is getting better. His colors are lighter and he's eating more. Hopefully he'll stop pacing.

[Crispy42]

Since frogforum's care sheets appear to be down right now, here is a link to a gray tree frog care sheet: http://www.reptileforums.co.uk/forum...olor-grey.html

[Dace]

That's basically identical to a care sheet for a whites or green tree frog...
Gray tree frogs are not as sensitive to temperature and humidity as tropical tree frogs. A water bowl is more of a luxury than a necessity. And it's a luxury that needs to be cleaned and changed every day, or it will become a breeding site for disease. In the wild they most likely get their water from rain and morning dew. If they get too dry, they bury themselves in moist soil.
My frogs get all the moisture they need (and probably more than they need) from being sprayed with water daily. They never bury themselves.
I've seen gray tree frogs not only resting on trees out in the open on dry days, but also once on a concrete building surrounded on all sides by sun- baked pavement. These things are probably more tolerant of heat and dryness than some reptiles...

[Dace]

We'll, I'd have to say he's just about made a full recovery from whatever was up with him. He stopped pacing, his colors are beautiful, and his appetite is back to normal. Still won't regularly eat roaches, but that won't be a problem till next winter.

[Dace]

I've got the little guy back on roaches, but he isn't the problem now. My adult male hasn't eaten for 3 days. Other than that he's behaving quite normal, actually calling quite a bit, and I feel like his lack of appetite might be linked to the unseasonably cold weather we've been having. I gave him a honey bath yesterday but that did not have any appreciable effect.